Featured Should the U.S.A. be Condemned and Judged for It's Sins?

Hello Steven,

No, just no. You are on the wrong track if you think that you should pray against someone or a group of people.

Next, God determines whether justice is needed - not you.

Go back to the Lord's prayer to understand how and what you should pray. Go back to what Paul and Jesus prayed for. Look at how Stephen the first Martyr prayed. Who's example are you trying to follow?

Read the end of Judges to find out what bad actually is. Read some history.

Marty

 

Sorry I didn't add this to my first post.

You sound like Jonah here.

Here's a primer for your reading.

 

That isn't always true, it depends upon the situation.

David prays in Psalm 69 against “those who hate me without cause” (Psalm 69:4). He cries out to God,
Let their own table before them become a snare; and when they are at peace, let it become a trap. Let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and make their loins tremble continually. Pour out your indignation upon them, and let your burning anger overtake them. (Psalm 69:22–24)

Read through Psalm 35.

Psalms Chapter 35
1 Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
2 Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
7 For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul.
8 Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall.
9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.
10 All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
11 False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not.
12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.
13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
14 I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother.
15 But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not:
16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
17 Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.
18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people.
19 Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
20 For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land.
21 Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it.
22 This thou hast seen, O LORD: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me.
23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
24 Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me.
25 Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.
26 Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me.
27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
28 And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.

 

[Gen 12:1-3 KJV] 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

As far as I know, the United States has always supported Israel against its enemies. Perhaps God is showing His appreciation by being true to His promise to Abram.

 

Hello Esther,

Yes, I would suggest doing this again. Even if you look at Psalm 35, it is clear that people are trying to kill David. Is someone trying to kill Steven? If so, I will likewise pray against them so that they fail in their task.

You’re not alone, the Jews also misinterpreted the Psalms. Jesus makes it pretty clear in Luke 6:27-42. You can go throught the entire New Testament and read far more examples.

Please read Jonah. I think this book really speaks to those who want judgement from a compassionate and forgiving God.

Marty

 

Well, I think you are completely misinterpreting things. David was not thinking of himself. David cared about the Honor of God. What you are doing is trying to ignore part of the Bible. Everything in the Bible is not always Black and White. And God does not always have mercy upon everybody in all circumstances.

In fact there is a place in the Bible where God specifically tells people NOT to pray for someone.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The Chaldee Paraphrase is, ‘When your priests expand their hands to pray for you.’

Isa 1:15 When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.

Then there is something like Matthew 18 where it says that if a person sins against you, go to him in private, then if he doesnt listen, take it to the Church and if he refuses to hear the Church then let him be unto thee like a heathen.

Things are not always so rosy where God is concerned.

There is a difference between willful disobedience and falling into sin.

The New Age Movement also now acknowledges God but then they leave the judgments of God out of the picture or on the back burner. And they say we ought to burn the Ten Commandments in a campfire.

And Jonah and that story has nothing to do with this.... they repented and were heathens to start with, not claiming to be a Christian Country like America. God views Christians alot differently than He does those who have had no light. Remember God told Jonah these people in Nineveh didn't even know their right hand from their left, as far as doing good goes... they were ignorant. Jesus said that those who knew God's will in the judgment would be 'beaten with many stripes' if they didn't obey Him, but that those who did not know His will would be beaten wth few stripes. America has had more light than any other Country in this World.

And, not that I WANT America to fall, but it WILL, it is in Bible Prophecy that it will. I pray for America, because I want God to continue to hold back the winds of strife and to preserve our Religious Liberty longer before the Mark of the Beast is enforced, but I am just saying that there are times when it is completely biblical to pray AGAINST someone or even not to pray for them at all. It all depends upon the situation.

"I will be merciful only if you stop your evil thoughts and deeds and start treating each other with justice, only if you stop exploiting foreigners, orphans, and widows, only if you stop your murdering, and only if you stop harming yourselves by worshiping idols" (Jer. 7:5-6).

same chapter:

Jer 7:16 "As for you, do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with me, for I will not hear you.
Jer 7:17 Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Sometimes God views it as people are supporting other people's lack of obedience to God, and it is a DISHONOR to Him to pray for them. "Do you not see what they are doing?" He says.

 

God created the nations from the beginning, and has exercised patience with them. The abortion sin tops my list as the very purpose of government is to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. We deserve punishment, no question on that.

But be careful, here. We're in the Church age, if our country is failing, it's a sure sign the Church is failing. Any judgment on America will start with a judgment on the inadequate, compromising Church in America. I'm praying for mercy and reformation.

 

I am just going to go ahead and post this here so that People can take a look at it and hopefully realise that the United States of America is the Second Beast of Revelation.... I will post it in 2 Parts.

PART #1

THE SECOND BEAST OF REVELATION 13

The Great Controversy, pp. 439-443

At this point another symbol is introduced. Says the prophet, “I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb.” [Revelation 13:11.] Both the appearance of this beast and the manner of its rise indicate that the nation which it represents is unlike those presented under the preceding symbols. The great kingdoms that have ruled the world were presented to the prophet Daniel as beasts of prey, rising when the “four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.” [Daniel 7:2.] In Revelation 17, an angel explained that waters represent “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” [Revelation 17:15.] Winds are a symbol of strife. The four winds of heaven striving upon the great sea, represent the terrible scenes of conquest and revolution by which kingdoms have attained to power.
But the beast with lamb-like horns was seen “coming up out of the earth.” Instead of overthrowing other powers to establish itself, the nation thus represented must arise in territory previously unoccupied, and grow up gradually and peacefully. It could not, then, arise among the crowded and struggling nationalities of the Old World,—that turbulent sea of “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” It must be sought in the Western Continent.
What nation of the New World was in 1798 rising into power, giving promise of strength and greatness, and attracting the attention of the world? The application of the symbol admits of no question. One nation, and only one, meets the specifications of this prophecy; it points unmistakably to the United States of America. Again and again the thought, almost the exact words, of the sacred writer have been unconsciously employed by the orator and the historian in describing the rise and growth of this nation. The beast was seen “coming up out of the earth;” and, according to the translators, the word here rendered “coming up” literally signifies to “grow or spring up as a plant.” And, as we have seen, the nation must arise in territory previously unoccupied. A prominent writer, describing the rise of the United States, speaks of “the mystery of her coming forth from vacancy,“ and says, “Like a silent seed we grew into empire.” [Townsend, in “The New World Compared with the Old,” p. 462.] A European journal in 1850 spoke of the United States as a wonderful empire, which was “emerging,” and “amid the silence of the earth daily adding to its power and pride.” [The Dublin Nation.] Edward Everett, in an oration on the Pilgrim founders of this nation, said: “Did they look for a retired spot, inoffensive from its obscurity, safe in its remoteness from the haunts of despots, where the little church of Leyden might enjoy freedom of conscience? Behold the mighty regions over which, in peaceful conquest, ... they have borne the banners of the cross.”
“And he had two horns like a lamb.” The lamb-like horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as “coming up” in 1798. The Christian exiles who first fled to America, sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance, and they determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. The Declaration of Independence sets forth the great truth that “all men are created equal,” and endowed with the inalienable right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth.
But the beast with lamb-like horns “spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed, ...saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” [Revelation 13:11-14.]
The lamb-like horns and dragon voice of the symbol point to a striking contradiction between the professions and the practice of the nation thus represented. The “speaking” of the nation is the action of its legislative and judicial authorities. By such action it will give the lie to those liberal and peaceful principles which it has put forth as the foundation of its policy. The prediction that it will speak “as a dragon,” and exercise “all the power of the first beast,” plainly foretells a development of the spirit of intolerance and persecution that was manifested by the nations represented by the dragon and the leopard-like beast. And the statement that the beast with two horns “causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,” indicates that the authority of this nation is to be exercised in enforcing some observance which shall be an act of homage to the papacy.
Such action would be directly contrary to the principles of this government, to the genius of its free institutions, to the direct and solemn avowals of the Declaration of Independence, and to the Constitution. The founders of the nation wisely sought to guard against the employment of secular power on the part of the church, with its inevitable result—intolerance and persecution. The Constitution provides that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” and that “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office of public trust under the United States.” Only in flagrant violation of these safeguards to the nation's liberty, can any religious observance be enforced by civil authority. But the inconsistency of such action is no greater than is represented in the symbol. It is the beast with lamb-like horns—in profession pure, gentle, and harmless—that speaks as a dragon.
“Saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast.” Here is clearly presented a form of government in which the legislative power rests with the people; a most striking evidence that the United States is the nation denoted in the prophecy.
____________

 

PART #2


The Great Controversy, pp. 443-445

THE IMAGE TO THE BEAST

But what is the “image to the beast”? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the beast. It is also called an image of the beast. Then to learn what the image is like and how it is to be formed we must study the characteristics of the beast itself—the papacy.
When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of “heresy.” In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends.
Whenever the church has obtained secular power, she has employed it to punish dissent from her doctrines. Protestant churches that have followed in the steps of Rome by forming alliance with worldly powers have manifested a similar desire to restrict liberty of conscience. An example of this is given in the long-continued persecution of dissenters by the Church of England. During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, thousands of nonconformist ministers were forced to flee from their churches, and many, both of pastors and people, were subjected to fine, imprisonment, torture, and martyrdom.
It was apostasy that led the early church to seek the aid of the civil government, and this prepared the way for the development of the papacy—the beast. Said Paul: “There” shall “come a falling away, . . . and that man of sin be revealed.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3, KJV. So apostasy in the church will prepare the way for the image to the beast.
The Bible declares that before the coming of the Lord there will exist a state of religious declension similar to that in the first centuries. “In the last days perilous times will come: for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power.” 2 Timothy 3:1-5. “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.” 1 Timothy 4:1. Satan will work “with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception.” And all that “did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved,” will be left to accept “strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.” 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11. When this state of ungodliness shall be reached, the same results will follow as in the first centuries.
The wide diversity of belief in the Protestant churches is regarded by many as decisive proof that no effort to secure a forced uniformity can ever be made. But there has been for years, in churches of the Protestant faith, a strong and growing sentiment in favor of a union based upon common points of doctrine. To secure such a union, the discussion of subjects upon which all were not agreed—however important they might be from a Bible standpoint—must necessarily be waived.
Charles Beecher, in a sermon in the year 1846, declared that the ministry of “the evangelical Protestant denominations” is “not only formed all the way up under a tremendous pressure of merely human fear, but they live, and move, and breathe in a state of things radically corrupt, and appealing every hour to every baser element of their nature to hush up the truth, and bow the knee to the power of apostasy. Was not this the way things went with Rome? Are we not living her life over again? And what do we see just ahead? Another general council! A world’s convention! Evangelical alliance, and universal creed!”—Sermon on “The Bible a Sufficient Creed,” delivered at Fort Wayne, Indiana, Feb. 22, 1846. When this shall be gained, then, in the effort to secure complete uniformity, it will be only a step to the resort to force.
When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result.
The beast with two horns “causes [commands] all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:16, 17. The third angel’s warning is: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God.” “The beast” mentioned in this message, whose worship is enforced by the two-horned beast, is the first, or leopardlike beast of Revelation 13—the papacy. The “image to the beast” represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. The “mark of the beast” still remains to be defined.

 

Helo Esther,

In almost every verse of Psalm 35 he is discussing himself. Are you reading the same Bible?

I won’t waste time unpacking everything else you have written if you’re going to hold the belief that David was not thinking of himself.

 

Well alright. Suit yourself.

But I posted that for everybody, not just you. 'He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. '


ROMANS 11:9
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,

a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,

and bend their backs forever.”