Should we or should we not judge?

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I noticed this verse in my daily Bible reading today, and it seemed to contradict the popular sentiment that we should not ever judge our brothers and sisters in Christ:

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Thoughts? Comments? What say you?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

bump

 

[exscentric]

Don't judge is just a dodge most of the time in my mind. Of course we are to judge in church discipline, use our judgment in many ways in the church. I think when we judge a person in the areas where God will judge them we are wrong. We ought not judge in eternal things, but in the church some is required.

 

[Charles Meadows]

There is nothing wrong with reproving those who live in clear violation of God's law. A church member involved in a homosexual or an adulterous relationship SHOULD be confronted.

But unfortunately many of us tend to use Bible verses to justify "judging" those who are different than we are. I think "judging" on issues such as music, bible versions, pants on women etc is NOT appropriate.

 

[askM]

I think 1 and 2 Timothy is a good reference here.
Consider how the UCC recently debated the deity of Christ, and how various other denominations are allowing homosexual ministers and supporting planned parenthood. How can we be quiet about such things? In my opinion, we are living in the last days and many of the flock is being led astray by "doctrines of demons". It's a sad day when the christian churches call wrong right.

Off the soapbox now.

 

[av1611jim]

If one were to look at all of Scripture about "judging" one will see that indeed there is no prohibition against it, but rather there ARE rules for its proper use and context.

Mt 7:1
¶ Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mt 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mt 7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mt 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Lu 12:57
Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

Joh 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Ro 14:7
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Ro 14:8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Ro 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Ro 14:10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Ro 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Ro 14:12
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Ro 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

1Co 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1Co 6:5
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

These are but a few selected passages to show what I mean.

By these we can see that indeed we OUGHT to make judgments about many things. And we will also (if found faithful) be given places of honor in the life to come whereby we will be able to judge even some angels.

So...no. these folks who say we ought NOT judge are in error. We should and do judge others. But only by Scripture. Scripture is our ultimate judge in this life. If we see our brother in violation of Scripture, then we ought to make a judgment upon him within the context of church discipline.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Jim,

I agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Artimaeus]

It seems to me that the biggest difficulty is that many people refuse to see the difference between judging (as in condemnation) and judging (as in evaluating). Jesus did not judge (condemn) the woman caught in adultery but He certainly did judge (evaluate) that what she was doing was a sin.

Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Art,

How would you classify the type of judging that Paul is discussing here where the wicked man among you is expelled? Would that be the kind of judgement that is an evaluation, or a condemnation, or is it something totally different?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Bro Tony]

I think Jim has a good grasp of this issue. If we could not judge anything, as some would say, we could never make any decision, nor could we stand for anything.

Bro Tony

 

[Humblesmith]

I was dealing with this just this last week. Bottom line, we are not to judge in a way that attacks a person or is hypocritical, but we are commanded to judge other's teachings and moral behavior, even naming names in church. We are commanded to defend Christianity from attacks. We are to do all in love. A few verses about judging, defending, etc.

James 4:11-12
Matthew 7:1-5
1 Cor. 5:1-5

(Titus 3:9-11) But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

(2 Timothy 2:24-25) And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,


(1 Peter 3:15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;


(Col. 4.5-6) Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

(Phil. 1:17) “…I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.”

(Jude 3) I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

(Titus 1:7) [A leader must be] holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
(Titus 1:13) Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,


(Phil. 4:2) I implore Euodia and I implore Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord.

(Gal. 2:11) Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

(2 Tim. 4:9) for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world,

(2 Tim. 4:14-15) Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works. You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Humblesmith:
I was dealing with this just this last week. Bottom line, we are not to judge in a way that attacks a person

When you say "attacks a person", are you referring to physical attacks, calling a man wicked, or expelling him from the congregation? Please clarify what you mean. Thanks.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Humblesmith]

I meant in a way that is considered a personal attack.....name calling, in anger, one that demeans them as a person, as opposed to their teachings or behavior.

It is biblical to pull someone aside and gently counsel them about their lack of truthfulness. But it is not OK to gossip about them behind their back, or refer to them as a "selfish liar" around other people. The former is biblical, the latter is a personal attack and should be avoided, even if it may be true.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Thoughts? Comments? What say you?

I think it's a scriptural way of saying "don't judge something you don't have knowlege of". We believers tend to judge things we don't know, but excuse the things we do.

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
There is nothing wrong with reproving those who live in clear violation of God's law. A church member involved in a homosexual or an adulterous relationship SHOULD be confronted.

"Let he among you without sin cast the first stone." Charles, I don't disagree with your statement, but why are we so quick to judge a homosexual, but not so quick to judge, say, someone who breaks the speed limit? It's because we've all been guilty of unrepented speeding. If we judge the speeder, then we have to judge ourselves. Judging another is easy. Judging ourselves is hard. He who judges others, but not himself, is judging unrighteously. Jesus pointed this out somewhat with the adulterous woman. Where was the adulterous man she was with? Note that her accusers were giving him a free pass, not to mention being completely silent about their own sins. That is why Jesus says that he who casts stones must be without sin.

 

[just-want-peace]

--but why are we so quick to judge a homosexual, but not so quick to judge, say, someone who breaks the speed limit?

The judgement comes because the homos are trying to force me and you and the rest of society to not only accept their deviancy, but to affirm that their deviancy is "normal".

I dare say that 99+ % of the "judging" they get would be non-existant if they would just shut up and go back into the closet.

Even murderers know better than to try to push for acceptance of their sins.

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Art,

How would you classify the type of judging that Paul is discussing here where the wicked man among you is expelled? Would that be the kind of judgement that is an evaluation, or a condemnation, or is it something totally different?

Joseph Botwinick

Perhaps it has to do with due process. Individuals are required to make judgements (evaluations) all the time. In order to avoid sin or in order to discern that which is right. Judgement (condemnation) however, might need to be done following the due process outlined in the Bible. Evaluations are of course necessary in both situations. Paul tells us that church discipline may, at times, be necessary but I don't think we, as individuals, are ever told to have evaluations with consequences (condemnations) for another individual.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I agree, I think. I am not sure I understand your last sentence.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[HankD]

For the church?

First, human judgments to be biblical should be remedial acts and not so much punitive to bring the offender to a change of heart.

Second they should be protective, that is, to separate out the offender so as not to leaven the lump until that change of heart has taken place.

My opinion, of course.

HankD

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I agree, I think. I am not sure I understand your last sentence.

Joseph Botwinick

What I mean is that we, as individuals, can evaluate but we, as individuals, can't condemn. Sort of like, not taking the law into our own hands.