Should We Speak of An Angry God?

[TCGreek]

Had they never heard of hell?

I cannot say for sure.

Did the jailer hear about hell?

Must a person hear about hell before coming to the Lord?

 

[TCGreek]

Not all at once. You've got me there. But from the time I was born 'til the time I was saved, all those questions were put to me by someone. Just not all at once.

I'm not saying a person cannot be saved if we (mere humans) don't present every single detail of the gospel. God is greater than that. He certainly doesn't withold salvation from anyone because the gospel wasn't presented perfectly.

But, the whole gospel includes God's wrath because that is why Christ gave His life.

I'm almost in agreement, but an announcing of the wrath of God is not what God uses in some cases.

 

[Amy.G]

I cannot say for sure.

Did the jailer hear about hell?

Must a person hear about hell before coming to the Lord?

Surely they must understand what they need to be saved from.

 

[TCGreek]

Surely they must understand what they need to be saved from.

From their sins, but a mention of hell or the wrath of God does not follow.

At times, the mention of hell or the wrath of God might be what the Spirit uses.

 

[Revmitchell]

a. Jesus with the woman at the well (where was the wrath taught?)

The answer to these are clear. Jesus' conversation was not the end of the conversation. She did not necessarily become converted at that moment. She went and got other towns people and the conversation carried on. Being that the wrath is crucial to the gospel it is likely it was discussed.

b. Paul with the jailer after the prison gates opened (where was the wrath taught?)

Again that was not the end of the conversation.

c. Phillip with the Ethiopian (where was the wrath taught?)

Maybe you should go back and reread this. In each of these cases there is a large section of conversation that we are not privy to but scripture makes clear happens.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm just going by what I see in the Bible and from experience.

What i am looking for here is what motivates you to skip it?

 

[webdog]

The answer to these are clear. Jesus' conversation was not the end of the conversation. She did not necessarily become converted at that moment. She went and got other towns people and the conversation carried on. Being that the wrath is crucial to the gospel it is likely it was discussed.



Again that was not the end of the conversation.



Maybe you should go back and reread this.

You are adding your opinion as fact. How do you know the conversation continued? You are approaching these passages with your presupposition that wrath NEEDS to be preached.

Was wrath preached to the thief on the cross?

 

[Revmitchell]

You are adding your opinion as fact. How do you know the conversation continued? You are approaching these passages with your presupposition that wrath NEEDS to be preached.

Was wrath preached to the thief on the cross?

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. Further conversation we are not privy to.



Joh 4:39 Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me all that I ever did."
Joh 4:40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. Further conversation we are not privy to.
Joh 4:41 And many more believed because of his word.



Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter and like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opens not his mouth. The wrath of God!

Act 8:33 In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth."
Act 8:34 And the eunuch said to Philip, "About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?"
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. Further conversation we are not privy to.

 

[webdog]

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.



Joh 4:39 Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me all that I ever did."
Joh 4:40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days.
Joh 4:41 And many more believed because of his word.

...still approaching the text with your presuppositions... :BangHead:

 

[Revmitchell]

The thief acknowledge Christ as innocent and not deserving of what was happening. Not applicable.

 

[Revmitchell]

...still approaching the text with your presuppositions... :BangHead:

Please explain the accusation of presupposition

 

[nunatak]

This thread and posts has lead me to a question. Didn't God's wrath fall on Christ? And when we talk about the wrath of God, aren't we saved from His wrath in that it fell on Christ?

 

[Daniel1654]

I love the smell of brimstone in the morning.
No really, that was from a scene in a movie. I think.:smilewinkgrin:
But I do love hell fire and brimstone sermons.
The problem with todays churches is they are afraid to preach against sin.
Hell fire sermons keep the collection plates empty and you can't have that now can you.
Go along to get along is not what Christ had in mind when he spoke clearly to the Scribes and Pharisees.
Wish washy Christianity is the reason the world doesn't take us serious about hell and if they don't take us serious about hell than they won't take us serious about heaven.
"as in the day of Noah, so shall also the coming of the son of man be".
I believe God was angry when he sent the flood. Do you?

 

[Allan]

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. Further conversation we are not privy to.



Joh 4:39 Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me all that I ever did."
Joh 4:40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. Further conversation we are not privy to.
Joh 4:41 And many more believed because of his word.



Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter and like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opens not his mouth. The wrath of God!

Act 8:33 In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth."
Act 8:34 And the eunuch said to Philip, "About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?"
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. Further conversation we are not privy to.

Well said and very true.

 

[Allan]

As to the OP,

Yes, I believe we are to proclaim the wrath of God, but that does not necessitate that we all do it the same way.

Anytime we share Christ crusified we MUST proclaim that in order for any man to go to heaven Christ had to die for our sins. That of itself declares God's wrath against sin. There is no gospel where Christ has not died and rose again.
Does God save without the gospel? NO! The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Does have to preach hell fire and brimstone? No!

Take the Etheopian and Philip. Remember the passage the Etheopian was reading. He didn't ask what must I do to be saved? Apparently either he already knew how or as Philip was explaining it, he got saved then. What scripture does record is him asking "what prevents me from being baptized?".

I think the better question isn't 'should we' but 'how far are we to take it?".

I think that is a question only answered in the moment as the Holy Spirit leads each person and or Pastor's message.

 

[TCGreek]

As to the OP,

Yes, I believe we are to proclaim the wrath of God, but that does not necessitate that we all do it the same way.

Anytime we share Christ crusified we MUST proclaim that in order for any man to go to heaven Christ had to die for our sins. That of itself declares God's wrath against sin. There is no gospel where Christ has not died and rose again.
Does God save without the gospel? NO! The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Does have to preach hell fire and brimstone? No!

Take the Etheopian and Philip. Remember the passage the Etheopian was reading. He didn't ask what must I do to be saved? Apparently either he already knew how or as Philip was explaining it, he got saved then. What scripture does record is him asking "what prevents me from being baptized?".

I think the better question isn't 'should we' but 'how far are we to take it?".

I think that is a question only answered in the moment as the Holy Spirit leads each person and or Pastor's message.

Allan,

Don't get me wrong! Yes, we must preach the wrath of God and the cross of Christ. Look at my trailer verse.

But all I'm saying is this: God can use a word shared by someone without ever mentioning the wrath of God to draw someone to Himself.

 

[Allan]

Allan,

Don't get me wrong! Yes, we must preach the wrath of God and the cross of Christ. Look at my trailer verse.

But all I'm saying is this: God can use a word shared by someone without ever mentioning the wrath of God to draw someone to Himself.

Are you speaking about 'drawing' or 'saving' cause they are two seperate things. Though they do connect they aren't the same thing.

I would agree in that aspect that one can speak of God (absent His wrath) and God draw a person to or toward Himself. But salvation is only given once the gospel is received by faith and that holds the aspect of Gods wrath which can not be set aside, and I think you agree.

I saw your trailer verse and saw that you even stated:

I certainly think it is Scriptural to refer to God as an angry God.

However, after that you began agreeing that one can be saved 'without' declaring the wrath of God. I have to disagree based upon the gospel message.

Thus a person can not come up to another and say "God loves you so much and wants you to be saved today, will you be saved by Him today" and that person truly become saved based upon that.

Scripture says the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, His righteousness, and the judgment to come - but how will they know without a preacher (Rom 10:14) Now you might state that this verse simply says they wont know unless someone tells another about God but not specifically 'what' is told. And if scripture ended there I would agree with you but when we look at the next verse it tells us exactly what the preacher is telling them:

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

EDITTED IN -- Now that I think about it, I might agree with you based upon an exception. That the person has ALREADY been told about Gods wrath, and thus a person can come up and speak with them about everything else. Thus knowing both the wrath and the grace they by the Holy Spirits conviction incorporating both aspects together - will save the person who by faith receives it.