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Should We Speak of An Angry God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TCGreek, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think a person must realize they have sinned against God and the consequences (wrath) that follow in order to realize they need to be saved.

    Before I was saved, I feared hell (with a capital F) and I knew if I had died, I would have gone there.

    If someone has no fear of God and His judgement and only accepts Him as a warm fuzzy friend, I don't see salvation being obtained.
     
    #61 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That is correct. We must fear God. Why would anyone want to skip that?
     
    #62 Revmitchell, Apr 18, 2008
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think Russell55 had a good point about the Jews understanding God's wrath because they had the law.

    Here is what Paul said to the people (Gentiles) at the Areopagus:


    Act 17:30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
    Act 17:31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

    He never got any farther with his speech because they mocked him and didn't want to hear any more. But Paul seems to have made it clear that a judgement was coming.
     
    #63 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I don't think anyone should ever skip mentioning the wrath of God if that is what the Spirit puts on the person who is sharing the gospel's heart.
     
    #64 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Now that may have been your experience, but it is not true of everyone who has ever been saved, or will ever be saved.
     
    #65 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I'm not anti-the wrath of God in the presentation of the Gospel, but it is not always the message that God would put on the evangelizer's heart to share with another.

    The rich young ruler, when he asked, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" was he told about the wrath of God? (Mark 10:17-22).
     
    #66 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Same with the Ethiopian Phillip baptized, the jailer about to commit suicide after the prison gates were open freeing Paul, etc.
     
    #67 webdog, Apr 18, 2008
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Why would anyone skip the wrath of God for any reason? What would that reason be ?
     
    #68 Revmitchell, Apr 18, 2008
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Why did Jesus? Phillip? Paul? My pastor?
     
    #69 webdog, Apr 18, 2008
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I cannot speak to your pastor. But if your would like to show me where the other threee did and then explain why i would be interested to hear your take on it.
     
    #70 Revmitchell, Apr 18, 2008
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I'm not trying to argue with you, although it is kinda fun "ganging up you" .:laugh:

    At some point a person must be convicted of their sin or they will not turn to God (repent). The Holy Spirit is the one who really is responsible for this conviction, so if someone presents the gospel without the wrath part, the Spirit will still convict.

    But I really don't see how you can present the gospel if you don't tell the person why Christ was crucified, which was because of the wrath of God. It fell on Christ instead of me.
     
    #71 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Exactly! The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ, but there are many ways to come to Christ.
     
    #72 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I'm just going by what I see in the Bible and from experience.
     
    #73 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  14. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Good one, Amy!

    Yes, a person must see the need for the Savior and come to him in biblical faith.

    But it does not follow that this must always happen because a person heard about the wrath of God.

    Notice what Paul says in 2 Cor 4:

    3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    In this case, it is "seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."
     
    #74 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    But what does it mean to see the light?

    What is the gospel of Jesus Christ?

    Why do we need a savior?

    What happens to us if don't put our faith in the Savior?

    What do we avoid if we do put our faith in the Savior?

    Why do we need grace?


    These are things that we should explain to people. If we don't, they aren't really getting the gospel.
     
    #75 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I'm not sure what you are asking. As I stated earlier, the examples are

    a. Jesus with the woman at the well (where was the wrath taught?)
    b. Paul with the jailer after the prison gates opened (where was the wrath taught?)
    c. Phillip with the Ethiopian (where was the wrath taught?)
     
    #76 webdog, Apr 18, 2008
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    When the jailer asked, "What must I do to be saved?" were these questions put to him?

    Paul says the "light of the glory of the gospel of Christ." It's beholding the magnificence of Christ.

    Paul again answers that in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

    We need the Savior to be saved from our sins and the wrath of God to come (1 Thess 1:9, 10).

    We are already condemned and on our way to the devil's hell (John 3:18)

    The wrath of God (Rom 5:9, 10).

    We need grace to be saved (Eph 2:8).

    Now I've just given you academic answers to your questions.

    So, were all those questions put to you?

    Must all those questions be put before a person?

    How come I don't see all of them in Acts 2?

    As I said, One way to Heaven, but many ways to get to Christ, who is the way to heaven.

    Look at the message Peter preached to Cornelius (Acts 10). I see no mention of the wrath of God.
     
    #77 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  18. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Brother, I preach about the cross of Christ and what it means.

    But apparently you're missing my point.

    There are people who have been saved without hearing an announcement of the wrath of God.

    Yes, they must become convicted of their sins and a need of the Savior but it does not follow that they must hear the wrath of God announced.

    I have seen people come to the Lord without ever hearing of the wrath of God.

    It seems like you're ready to question their salvation.

    What question are you speaking of?
     
    #78 TCGreek, Apr 18, 2008
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Not all at once. You've got me there. But from the time I was born 'til the time I was saved, all those questions were put to me by someone. Just not all at once.

    I'm not saying a person cannot be saved if we (mere humans) don't present every single detail of the gospel. God is greater than that. He certainly doesn't withold salvation from anyone because the gospel wasn't presented perfectly.

    But, the whole gospel includes God's wrath because that is why Christ gave His life.
     
    #79 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Had they never heard of hell?
     
    #80 Amy.G, Apr 18, 2008
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