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Should we trust Cain?

Ruiz

New Member
Well, since you have come to your own apparently unshakable convictions regarding Mr. Cain, then there is no further use for us to comment- is there?

Have a nice day.

And you have come to an unshakable position that he can do no wrong and he is right despite five different people and his slander. You have nothing to rely upon but his own word. You would believe him than five others.

Politics is strange, people will believe a politician despite the number of people who come forward.

I supported Clarence Thomas during Anita Hill and would do so again. I initially believed Cain, but not after all this other stuff has come out.

Do you really believe 5 people are lying and Cain is the only one telling the truth?
 

sag38

Active Member
Ruiz, I hope no one ever uses the same criteria to make assumptions about you that you are using to judge Cain. Good luck with that.
 

Ruiz

New Member
Ruiz, I hope no one ever uses the same criteria to make assumptions about you that you are using to judge Cain. Good luck with that.

If I had 5 different people make accusations against me like that against Cain, and brought them to the Elders of my church... I would be more critical of my Elders for not taking it serious than I would be of my Elders if they investigated the claims.

If I slandered the accusers saying it was because I am "Hispanic", I would hope they would slap me in the face and tell me that my statements were uncalled for.

So, if I had the same standards given to my elders, or if I were an Elder hearing the same case, I would take it more serious. In fact, I would probably pull you from all ministry duties and may issue a requirement that you abstain from the Lord's Supper until such a time as we could investigate more or get a more full statement.

In your case, would you let the person go free and stand by this person if five people made similar accusations?
 

Ruiz

New Member
Cain is accusing Perry, not some "liberal" news source.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/11/03/et-ru-perry-cain-accuses-perry-campaign-as-source-of-sexual-harassment-claims/

Regardless of the source, it looks like Perry and Cain are racing to the bottom of the field.

I bet Romney is enjoying this!

The most recent is blaming Perry. But he and the irrational Rush and Sean have blamed the media. He recently said it was a racist attack.

Personally, I would find it hard to believe that Obama will do less in exploiting this than has been done in the media. Rather, I am sure they will make sure this gets more air time in a year than it has today.
 

Robert Snow

New Member
The most recent is blaming Perry. But he and the irrational Rush and Sean have blamed the media. He recently said it was a racist attack.

Personally, I would find it hard to believe that Obama will do less in exploiting this than has been done in the media. Rather, I am sure they will make sure this gets more air time in a year than it has today.

Certainly Obama will attempt to capitalize on this, as will most of the other politicians running in 2012 if they can. Remember, they are politicians; nothing is sacred to these people. Facts don't matter, votes do!
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Yes, three women have made accusations - and thats all they are - accusations. We have no details as to what happened. It could be as simple as Cain saying "Honey". To some women that in itself could be considered harassment.

The two women are not permitted to speak - due to gag orders and the fact that they were given a generous severance paycheck - or whatever you want to call it. Supposed they did receive 100 grand - that would be a lot cheaper if the organization considered that a lawsuit would have cost over 500 grand. (just plucking # out of the sky - hope you get the ideal)

As far as the conservative talk show host, Steve Deace who alleged Cain said inappropriate comments to the radio staff did not mention any specifics in his blog. Again, could be what Cain said that would be considered inappropriate in Iowa, might be very acceptable in Georgia.

Yes, the Bible does mention two witnesses - but they must actually state what they witnessed - which has NOT happened (yet)

Oh, here is an interesting verse about two witnesses Matt 26:60.

Currently there is not even enough facts to even indict Cain.

If he is guilty of something sufficient, then he will loose my support - but for the time being, Cain is presumed innocent until proven guilty
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Herman Cain wants to build an electric fence across the southern border. He has been extremely inconsistent on his abortion stance. Wars, the Patriot Act, and other horrible ideas will continue.

No, he should not be trusted.

But we shouldn't trust anybody, lest we prove ourselves fickle as the folks who trusted in "Yes we can".
 

Ruiz

New Member
Yes, three women have made accusations - and thats all they are - accusations. We have no details as to what happened. It could be as simple as Cain saying "Honey". To some women that in itself could be considered harassment.

The two women are not permitted to speak - due to gag orders and the fact that they were given a generous severance paycheck - or whatever you want to call it. Supposed they did receive 100 grand - that would be a lot cheaper if the organization considered that a lawsuit would have cost over 500 grand. (just plucking # out of the sky - hope you get the ideal)

As far as the conservative talk show host, Steve Deace who alleged Cain said inappropriate comments to the radio staff did not mention any specifics in his blog. Again, could be what Cain said that would be considered inappropriate in Iowa, might be very acceptable in Georgia.

Yes, the Bible does mention two witnesses - but they must actually state what they witnessed - which has NOT happened (yet)

Oh, here is an interesting verse about two witnesses Matt 26:60.

Currently there is not even enough facts to even indict Cain.

If he is guilty of something sufficient, then he will loose my support - but for the time being, Cain is presumed innocent until proven guilty

First, two of the three ladies cannot talk about the accusations. There was a settlement with them totaling $80,000.00. They can't talk due to the package, however, one wants to communicate to the media and has not been afforded this right.

The third lady said that Cain made sexual innuendos and gestures towards her and invited her to him corporate apartment. Again, very disturbing and very specific.

Chris Wilson's statement is very condemning. He said he witnessed these issues.

Five different statements by five different people. BTW, I have been involved in an investigation into sexual harrasment (I was not being investigated). I have a hard time believing they would settle for $35 and $45 thousand if it was utterly baseless.

On the other side, Cain has accused those against him as being motivated by race, falsely accused the Perry Campaign of leaking this information, have bashed the individuals making this statement, yelled at reporters, blamed the media for the reports, etc...

What I see are five different people testifying to his character. Five different people who believe these issues were important enough to file a complaint, go public, or express their concerns. Can one lie? Yes! Can two lie? Yes! However, I have a hard time thinking all five are lying.

Now, as for the Matthew verse. First, Cain's attitude and response since has been horrible. If he had not done this, he has lied to us since this issue has come to the forefront and attacked the reporters and not dealt with the issue. To me, his response alone eliminates him from my list. Secondly, Cain is not holy, Jesus was. If they are lying then they should be sued for defamation of character. However, if Cain is lying through his attacks on these others, he too should be sued for defamation.

If I had to trust five different reports from five totally different people against one person, I would trust the five. They have not changed their testimony, no so much with Herman Cain who has changed his countless times the last few days.

Innocent until proven guilty is a court of law issue. For me, it is his character that I believe is in question. If the same things were brought to me about one of our Elders, I would ask him to step down until we could resolve this issue.
 

Ruiz

New Member
Christian Science Monitor is reporting that the Cain Campaign does not want the women who alleged the sexual harassment to be allowed to speak.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electi...rman-Cain-getting-good-advice-on-his-campaign

Here is the notation in the article:

And it additionally does not help Herman Cain that his campaign manager went on Fox News and said the campaign would not agree or support the women involved being released from their non-disclosure agreements. The only way for this story to start going away is to let the women speak and judge on the merits what they claim was harassment.

The campaign is going against Richard Land, who even says they need to have everything released to get it behind you.

The campaign admits that they don't want the other side of the story to be told.
 

freeatlast

New Member
The accusations against Cain saddens me. These charges are serious and should not be something that is swept under the rug, nor are these charges something we think of as political opportunity.

Now, there is a third girl coming forward with very specific accusations. As well, there has been a couple of people who have come forward claiming they have witnessed indiscretions by Herman Cain. If this does not cause your heart to ache, you are too political. If this causes you to attack the people, you too are too political.

Even if we grant Cain the respect we should grant an Elder, there are more than two witnesses who have come forward with very specific charges. At this point, I must assume that he is not fit to be our President.

We should encourage him to seek counseling and to work on his marriage. Those seem to be more important now than any Presidential bid.

I see no reason to believe that the accusations are false but that does not mean they are justified. Without being there or knowing exactly what took place it is impossible to decide if the accusations are justified or not.

That being said the accusations were made and now are public and most likely from a conservatives view he is now unqualified. I do find it is interesting however that when President Clinton was caught up in the mess he was in the liberals said the person does not have to be moral to lead.
That is not an exact quote but that is the jest of it. However now that Mr. Cain is running for office and has some possible moral problems the same ones who felt that President Clinton should not be judged by his actions are now judging Mr. Cain for his (or what he has been accused of). None the less my guess is that his run for office is over.
 

Ruiz

New Member
What are the specifics of Wilson's statement?

What is Cain alleged to have done?

I have noted those in other posts here. He said that he observed Cain, for instance, engaged in innappropriate behavior with females in a hotel in Northern Virginia. The nature this was inappropriate sexual conduct. He did not specify the nature of this contact, however, he is collaborating the other accusations and he believes Cain's behavior was not good at all, supporting allegations from the other women.
 

faithgirl46

Active Member
Site Supporter
I like Herman Cain and I trust him. I am do not know circumstanes around his allegations. Look what Bill Clinton did IN the oval office
 

Ruiz

New Member
I like Herman Cain and I trust him. I am do not know circumstanes around his allegations. Look what Bill Clinton did IN the oval office

I don't know why someone would trust him. Personally, I have found nothing in his responses that evoke trust from us.
 

Mexdeaf

New Member
I don't know why someone would trust him. Personally, I have found nothing in his responses that evoke trust from us.

Yes, we know. So call me wrong because I have read his biography and it speaks of a man of character who would not do the things he is accused of. Call me wrong for not believing anonymous sources and people looking for attention who say there are many other witnesses- none who have come forward.

Then there's the point I made earlier- HC has had many many jobs and worked with people closely for many years and yet these allegations stem from only ONE place he worked at- that smells to high heaven.

I will trust him based upon the character he has exhibited throughout his life until there is evidence to the contrary, and not heed rumors and allegations.
 

Ruiz

New Member
Yes, we know. So call me wrong because I have read his biography and it speaks of a man of character who would not do the things he is accused of. Call me wrong for not believing anonymous sources and people looking for attention who say there are many other witnesses- none who have come forward.

Then there's the point I made earlier- HC has had many many jobs and worked with people closely for many years and yet these allegations stem from only ONE place he worked at- that smells to high heaven.

I will trust him based upon the character he has exhibited throughout his life until there is evidence to the contrary, and not heed rumors and allegations.

I have never read his biography, I did read Obama's for a theological inquiry. These are put out by political experts who write novels to make money and to get you to trust him. Is he the kind of person who would slander people in the media, calling them racists just because this information is released? Is one to slander the Perry campaign with little or no evidence? Is he the kind of person who is trying to make sure the women who accused him can never say anything about this event? This is his character.

Sorry, I don't trust someone's own biographical work as telling the entire story, or even a part of the story. Nor do I trust all the story in this issue has been told. However, I know there are five witnesses to separate events, there have been a number of others who collaborate stories of the five, and this is not a recent "new finding" but an issue that was around for a long time.

The question is, do you trust him over five different people who do not have political operatives around then to try to make them look good, to write their life story, and the like? These should be taken seriously. We may not know the entire story, but by the witness of five people, I cannot trust Cain at this point. I agree with Richard Land, the only way to get around this is to have full disclosure. That is something, though, the Cain camp says they do not want to happen.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Originally Posted by Ruiz
Should we trust Cain?

Yes We Can! :laugh:

Pal - just a small correction -
Yes, We Cain :laugh:

The nature this was inappropriate sexual conduct. He did not specify the nature of this contact, however, he is collaborating the other accusations and he believes ...
(note: bold emphasis mine)

Until he is more specific the accusation - it means nothing. With the info we currently have, do you think he would be indicted, let alone be convicted.


I like Herman Cain and I trust him. I am do not know circumstance around his allegations. Look what Bill Clinton did IN the oval office

Yes, but what Clinton did was consensual
Well thats what Libs like Stephanie Miller has been saying.
 
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