You stopped reading to soon. While God shows no partiality He also has ordained an authority structure. He also sets out a standard of conduct for us to obey given our individual status. He talks about how to live as a wife, a husband, a master, a slave, a parent, a child, and even as a leader in the Church.
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Should women be allowed to baptize?
- Thread starter LillyoftheValley
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You stopped reading to soon. While God shows no partiality He also has ordained an authority structure. He also sets out a standard of conduct for us to obey given our individual status. He talks about how to live as a wife, a husband, a master, a slave, a parent, a child, and even as a leader in the Church.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
I just partook of my first communion that was served by a woman. Guess what I discovered?
That communion is about the partaker, NOT THE SERVER!
You don't see warnings in scripture about the spiritual condition of the one serving the Lord's Supper, you see warnings to those who partake "unworthily".
I know we women have been raised and taught and re-enforced in the idea that men must dominate a church, but I'm finding less and less evidence that God wants it that way and more and more evidence that mankind(that means males and females alike) has chosen this method and God works/worked within the cultural setting of the times without being explicit that He wished for His church to continue to be male dominated until His return.
That communion is about the partaker, NOT THE SERVER!
You don't see warnings in scripture about the spiritual condition of the one serving the Lord's Supper, you see warnings to those who partake "unworthily".
I know we women have been raised and taught and re-enforced in the idea that men must dominate a church, but I'm finding less and less evidence that God wants it that way and more and more evidence that mankind(that means males and females alike) has chosen this method and God works/worked within the cultural setting of the times without being explicit that He wished for His church to continue to be male dominated until His return.
LillyoftheValley
New Member
While I enjoy the debate going on. I would appreciate it if we kept on topic. the question was
Should women be allowed to baptize?
and I believe I said in my op
Should women be allowed to baptize?
and I believe I said in my op
Peter said can any man however the greek "Tis" is used and means a certain, a certain one, some, some time, a while. So Peter can can a certain one forbid water, the KJV says man so we cannot be dogmatic (strict) aqnd say it can only be a man. The NAS says surely noone can refuse water, the NIV says surely no one can stand in the way. So we cannot say that this proves it either way due to the orignal language. Some would take it literally because they use only the English and don't look back to the Koine Greek.
The communion is not about the server nor the Partaker, it is don in Memory of the Savior. Do this in memory of me Christ said, it has nothing to do with us or the server.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Lilly, since both communion and baptism are considered ordinances of the church, then it follows that if a woman is allowed to do one, she would be allowed to do both. (Cindi's logic 101)
I both agree and disagree Rev. (yeah, I like being contrary lol) We wouldn't be given warnings by Paul about the graveness of participation and the possibility of sickness and death if there was no way way to partake in a spiritually unworthy manner. You are going to have to argue with Paul on this one, cause he was the one who gave the warning.....
I both agree and disagree Rev. (yeah, I like being contrary lol) We wouldn't be given warnings by Paul about the graveness of participation and the possibility of sickness and death if there was no way way to partake in a spiritually unworthy manner. You are going to have to argue with Paul on this one, cause he was the one who gave the warning.....
seekingthetruth
New Member
it's not a question of what anyone "believes", it is a question of what the Bible says...see 1 Tim 3.
Who cares what anyone believes, what does the Bible say about leadership positions?
John
Who cares what anyone believes, what does the Bible say about leadership positions?
John
Spiritually unworthiness means we partake with sin in pour lives or we don't do it in remembrance of Him. No discrepancy with Paul it is about remembering Christ and we can't remember Him if we have unconfessed sin our lives.
Lillies point is where does it say that someone in church leadership must Baptize the new convert?
seekingthetruth
New Member
Well, i agree it doesnt say it, but if you look, it was always done in the NT by a leader.
What? does she want her best friend or sister to baptise her?
Maybe my cousin Vinnie should have baptised me.
John
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Yeah, I guess those women prophets never opened their mouths, and the woman apostle Junia(s) was only an apostle to women, girls, and pre-puberty boys.
Yeah, I guess those women prophets never opened their mouths, and the woman apostle Junia(s) was only an apostle to women, girls, and pre-puberty boys.
You have scripture that says Junia was an apostle? Please provide. In another post since lily has asked us to stick to her OP.
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Michael Wrenn
New Member
Would it have mattered if he had?
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Yes, of course I do, and you do, too.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
What a joke of a translation. The literal rendering is : "who are outstanding among the apostles".
Michael Wrenn
New Member
How do you reconcile Paul's instruction in one place for women to keep silent in the church and his commendation in other places of prophetesses? I guess they were only permitted to exercise their gift outside of church.
LillyoftheValley
New Member
Thanks Rev. I appreciate you trying to stick to the OP.
As for Wrenn I have been made aware of your position on women in the church and I would appreciate it if per the premises of the OP...
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Says they were marked by the apostles or of not among the apostles. Doesn't say they are apostles.
Note from Greek Episemos:
having a mark on it, marked, stamped, coined
marked
in a good sense
of note, illustrious
in a bad sense
notorious, infamous
I.e they were stamped
Among from greek En:
in, by, with etc
With the term translated they were marked by the Apostles not they were Apostles. They were maked by their workl with the Apostles so are all believers who are working for Christ we are of note by those who see our work ato whehter we are marked in a good sense or a bad.
So if you think Romans 16:7 says Junia was an apostle the orginal Koine Greek doesn't bear that out could you show us from scripture your verse that says They are Apostles please.
No, she doesn't, she has been baptised as a believer by a new Testament Baptist Church.... you probably did not read the OP. Then again, maybe her sister (a Presbyterian by family ties) is considering believers Baptism, and also does not want a woman to Baptise her..... So..... posters such as REV and MONT who are adding some legit perspective might continue sharing with her what they understand. Reading Lilly's OP might help you
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