should women be ordained?

[seekingthetruth]

Okay, you gave me a chuckle here, I'm sure Brother Iconoclast goes down the Interstate in his big truck with his priestly beard, passing by little yugos and throws bibles out at them. :tongue3:



Okay, so the guys that wrote those things just got together one afternoon and pulled their beliefs out of thin air? Though more vauge, is the Baptist Faith and Message essentially not the same thing? What is it based on?



Your entitled to your opinion, but I personally don't think the guy is being demeaning. My personal goal is "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior" (sorry I posted scripture), that means both knowing scripture and applying it. You see, I don't want to be a "regular Christian". I want to live a life "worthy of the calling" (sorry I posted scripture again). And I want to "rightly divide the word of truth, so that I won't be ashamed" (darn it, there I go again with that scripture - sorry). Anyways, to each his own, carry on. :thumbs:

So, you just had to jump on the bandwagon and be condescending also?

I hope it made you feel good about yourself

john

 

[Jerome]

Okay, you gave me a chuckle here, I'm sure Brother Iconoclast goes down the Interstate in his big truck with his priestly beard, passing by little yugos and throws bibles out at them. :tongue3:

More likely they are those 'Dr. Downing's Baptist Catechisms' :laugh:

 

[Thousand Hills]

So, you just had to jump on the bandwagon and be condescending also?

I hope it made you feel good about yourself

john

Brother, I can tell I'm in a whole lot better mood than you are, thanks for the chuckles. :thumbsup:

 

[seekingthetruth]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

More likely they are those 'Dr. Downing's Baptist Catechisms' :laugh:

 

[seekingthetruth]

Brother, I can tell I'm in a whole lot better mood than you are, thanks for the chuckles. :thumbsup:

I am on disability for a mental disorder that I was born with.

Please don't joke around about my "moods"

John

 

[Iconoclast]

John, you should see his avatar on the puritan board. I wouldn't accuse icon of being a Romanist but you are correct in that he doesn't put the Scriptures above the man made stuff. And yes, I don't read any post from anyone that is long or has extensive quotes; most of this stuff doesn't need to be re-hashed and I find cut and past to be annoying. I have also had a similar offer from icon, to meet up and thus be set on the straight and narrow courtesy of his expert Biblical handling skills.

But having said this I firmly believe he means well in a preterist sort of way. That is where I think he can't let go of Rome.

Thomas...be careful...I will remind you that talebearing is a sin...The confessions you and Jerome ridicule put scripture first.

That you do not read...long posts....or quotes...explains alot:thumbsup:

to meet up and thus be set on the straight and narrow courtesy of his expert Biblical handling skills.

Did I say that? or did I offer to meet and fellowship??? I would welcome any biblical correction that comes my way...do you?

 

[Iconoclast]

More likely they are those 'Dr. Downing's Baptist Catechisms' :laugh:

Have you gotten a hold of your own copy yet Jerome???or are you still working on the 1689 confession of faith?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, I am sure he means well, and has good intentions.

But I dont think he has any idea how condescending and abrasive his approach is.

John

John, I am sorry if you feel my responses are abrasive and condescending.Perhaps you find them that way,because you are attacking what all the cals believe....so when we answer...there might be a rough edge to it:wavey: If you have sincere questions.....I think you have asked some ...you will get a scriptural answer. You have gotten answers from scripture. You might not like the answers...but they were offered to you.:1_grouphug:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Should women be ordained?

If she is qualified, yes...absolutely.

 

[Iconoclast]

The guy posts way more scripture than anyone else on here, so scripture is condescending and abrasive?????

Hello Brother,

Sometimes when scripture itself is presented to some people...if they have not seen it presented to address a position they hold as truth, they have a choice to make
1] consider the scripture and how it relates to the topic with a view to grow

2] agree with the scripture offered,and modify our belief

3] disagree,and offer why the verse does not seem to fit

4]fail to understand the scripture offered

5] see that the scripture does make sense, but try to resist it anyway, because they would have to modify their defective idea

6] resist all scriptures, and ridicule the person who offered the verses, claim they are arrogant, condescending,rude......this way you do not have to answer any of the verses...so you shift the attention to a person, rather than the scripture

7] claim all "man made " teaching...has no scriptural basis...as if the teachers did not read and post scripture

8] make believe you do not do exactly the same thing, just pick those who only agree with you
9] lie and say you only follow the bible only

 

[Iconoclast]

I am on disability for a mental disorder that I was born with.

Please don't joke around about my "moods"

John

While you have a challenge in dealing with your disorder...{we all have some form of challenge]...at least your's allows you to think at a high level if you stay closer to mid-line...you can be thankful even in your trial that God allows you to know about His care for you. Many cannot think at such a level.
Take comfort that God knows your frame...when challenged Psalm 139 is the clearest expression of God searching our hearts from the inside out.

Psalm 139

1O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

2Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

3Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

4For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

5Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. 6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

11If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

 

[seekingthetruth]

While you have a challenge in dealing with your disorder...{we all have some form of challenge]...at least your's allows you to think at a high level if you stay closer to mid-line...you can be thankful even in your trial that God allows you to know about His care for you. Many cannot think at such a level.
Take comfort that God knows your frame...when challenged Psalm 139 is the clearest expression of God searching our hearts from the inside out.

Thank you very much for the encouragement. Not many people have an understanding of mental disorders, but it appears that you do.

john

 

[Jerome]

...be careful...I will remind you that talebearing is a sin...The confessions you and Jerome ridicule...

Huh?
Perhaps you need to remind yourself?

 

[thomas15]

Thomas...be careful...I will remind you that talebearing is a sin...The confessions you and Jerome ridicule put scripture first.

That you do not read...long posts....or quotes...explains alot:thumbsup:



Did I say that? or did I offer to meet and fellowship??? I would welcome any biblical correction that comes my way...do you?

Excuse me while I yawn

 

[thomas15]

Thomas...be careful...I will remind you that talebearing is a sin...

No talebearing...Anyone can see your mug on the PB for themselves. It's either an extended brainpan or an oversized ego. You tell me.

 

[thomas15]

Can you show me an example? Because I've never seen this with Icono. Again, I've met the man and have communicated with him over an issue that I was having at church and he had GREAT, biblical advice without using "man-made stuff" at all - just Scriputre.

Go to the PB forum, look under covenant theology for a post titled Israel is church 1st nation 2nd post #3

Most likely it's a cut and paste job.

 

[annsni]

Go to the PB forum, look under covenant theology for a post titled Israel is church 1st nation 2nd post #3

Most likely it's a cut and paste job.

So you are bringing arguments from another board to here? That's bad form, IMO.

 

[annsni]

Go to the PB forum, look under covenant theology for a post titled Israel is church 1st nation 2nd post #3

Most likely it's a cut and paste job.

If it's most likely a cut and paste job, grab some of it and put it in Google. I took one sentence and there was one return - that thread. So you are accusing him of a cut and paste but have no proof?

 

[Jerome]

doesn't put the Scriptures above the man made stuff

without using "man-made stuff" at all - just Scriputre.

LOL Reminds me of this 'just Scriputre' gem on the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America [ARBCA] website:

http://www.arbca.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=65

This is from their Bible study, oops strike that, their 'Confession study' on Revelatory Gifts in the Present Day:

As a confessional body, the purpose of this position paper is to identify and clarify the statements contained in the 1689 London Baptist Confession dealing with the stated issues, to answer questions concerning what positions we affirm and deny from a confessional basis, and to preserve the unity of the churches in a controversial day. It is always understood that Scripture must be the final authority over the conscience on this issue. However, the member churches of ARBCA have already confessed that the LBC is a faithful summary of what Scripture teaches and that subscription to it is the basis for our unity as an association of churches. Detailed issues of exegesis can be addressed in messages delivered at our convention or in suggested reading. This is why this position paper deals more with the exposition and application of the LBC to this issue rather than a lengthy exegesis of Scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

Go to the PB forum, look under covenant theology for a post titled Israel is church 1st nation 2nd post #3

Most likely it's a cut and paste job.

Thomas...on the PB....the discussions remain scriptural....there was no cut and paste, except for scripture references...we can recreate the discussion here..or in person...with just open bibles if you like...it will help you leave some of those false ideas you embrace

and Thomas...it seems as if you highlighted the wrong portion from arbca;
Quote:
As a confessional body, the purpose of this position paper is to identify and clarify the statements contained in the 1689 London Baptist Confession dealing with the stated issues, to answer questions concerning what positions we affirm and deny from a confessional basis, and to preserve the unity of the churches in a controversial day. It is always understood that Scripture must be the final authority over the conscience on this issue. However, the member churches of ARBCA have already confessed that the LBC is a faithful summary of what Scripture teaches and that subscription to it is the basis for our unity as an association of churches. Detailed issues of exegesis can be addressed in messages delivered at our convention or in suggested reading. This is why this position paper deals more with the exposition and application of the LBC to this issue rather than a lengthy exegesis of Scripture.

Originally Posted by nwink
I recently was reading a book from a Reformed and Presbyterian author, and he said that "Israel" should be looked at as the church first, and as a nation second. (This is in contrast to Dispensationalism which looks at "Israel" as a nation only, but with a few believers in it) I don't have the book containing the quote with me, so I didn't want to name the author in case I'm misquoting him.

Is the statement of this author correct? If so, please explain how/why this is true.
Although all Redemptive History focuses on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, in redeeming His blood bought Church,the place of Israel as a nation has a distinct purpose in typological form. In discussing the blood bought church the writer to Hebrews includes all saints in Hebrews 11 as part of the one eternal church that will assemble on the last day.
As revelation by design is progressive the choice of the nation added a more significant type that must be considered.


22And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

23And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn
The failure of the nation as a whole is demonstrated by the whole teaching of "the elect remnant"..ie, the godly line being preserved . The Servant of the Lord that Isaiah speaks of is the complete fulfillment of both the HOLY NATION, and the HOLY CHURCH.
By virtue of our adoption and saving UNION being placed IN CHRIST,as part of His body he CHURCH and a Holy nation.We now may serve Him;

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.


Individual sinners being redeemed are built up as living stones;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
We as restored image bearers and part of the Christian Israel are to shine as lights in this world as a holy nation in obeying the law in our hearts by new birth. We in our sanctification are being conformed to the image of the Son. Our calling is a holy calling, both as a holy nation, and holy local assemblies in this world.

1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

3For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

4For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

5And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
Pastor Bruce....

Many of our Baptist friends here point to the Israelite economy as being fundamentally typological, and therefore a "national community," borne out of simple blood-line connection to Abraham (through Isaac and Jacob), and irrespective of their faith commitment. External conformity was sufficient to engage them and maintain them in the earthbound covenant, which only foreshadowed or hinted at the everlasting covenant of grace. Hence, one could expect a "mixed community" in the former age; but today they insist that we should be more exacting in who we recognize as part of the invisible brotherhood (insisting that all individuals should now exercise an "opt-in" clause, when/if they are capable of such an intelligible statement).
Considering we do read of the elect remnant of Israel, and not all Israel was of Israel....I am not sure why you would say this?
"and irrespective of their faith commitment"?? Are you speaking of dispensational brethren?

In light of adoption being said to be Spirit wrought,it does not seem that external conformity in any way maintains anyone in the covenant....[the terms of the earthbound covenant being changed]the axe is laid to the root of the tree. The failed example of Ot Israel is held out as a stern warning to any who would seek to mix in among the saints ,as I know you would agree. Last edited by Iconoclast; 03-06-2012 at 02:22 PM.

this material I have taught in SS in times past....if you or Jerome would like to dispute or discuss this we can....Like I say talebearing is sinful...i wrote this response,and can expand on it if you like...i have dozens of handmade overhead transparencies that i made for class if you would like to look them over....we can start a new thread on it...i will answer you...no cut and paste.

As far as cut and paste....it works very well to cut and paste works of godly persons who have a superior grasp of scripture.Why do you despise godly teachers???