Show Resolve - Support the Cause

Well, johnv, perhaps you would like it better if I say to the terrorists, kiss the sole of my foot. (The supreme insult...)

 

I think we're pretty much in agreement on what body parts a terrorist can kiss

Click Here to view Johnv's wedding photos

 

Oh, well. If you are offended by "pigs" and "pork" things, you really haven't had some good ole Southern baby backs!

Yes, our Savior was Jewish. That has nothing to do with the issue, but since you want to go there, Mohammed copied from the Jews anyway in the dietary laws and perverted the OT laws to his deviant demonic religion.

Furthermore, I really don't care how "bad" I look to terrorists who want to kill us. They were killing us long before I ever made a pork comment. And furthermore, I don't care if they are offended. They hate women anyway. My very existence as a Christian, American, woman infidel is offensive to them.

No, we aren't. That passage in Romans is instruction to believers about believers, those who are weaker in the faith. What faith? Faith in Jesus Christ, not allah or mohammed. And the Bible also says we ARE to judge people by their fruits. And we aren't to cast pearls before swine or that which is holy to the dogs. I consider terrorists swine and dogs.

Actually, Jesus called people vipers and whited sepulchres and wicked and Paul said they have reprobate minds - Romans Chapter One.

Not only that, but GOD will hold these terrorists in derision one day for their wickedness, when He comes as the JUDGE and with a bigger sword than allah's. Pay back will literally be hell. </font>[/QUOTE]WOW LadyEagle that was awesome.

 

They have brought it on since then. Is that good? </font>[/QUOTE]It's very good! It's an established and effective military tactic to draw the enemy to your superior forces so you can kill or capture them. </font>[/QUOTE]Hunt for Juba

We have different techniques to try to lure him out, but he is very well trained and very patient. He doesn't fire a second shot."

Some in the battalion want marksmen to occupy rooftops overlooking supply routes, Juba's hunting ground, to try to put him in the cross-hairs.

I hope they are able to hunt him down and kill
him but in urban warfare it is not as if
you can lure anybody into your superior force
it is mostly hit and run and as the article states
more and more sophistication with improvised
explosives.

 

A very telling interview on Hardball 4Aug2005
from a family from the Heartland they echo
my feelings as well you can support the troops
but not necessarily support the Policy.

MATTHEWS: Tonight, we begin with the parents of Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, who was among the 14 Marines who lost their lives in yesterday's attack in Iraq. His parents, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, join me now from their home outside Cleveland.

Well, it's a terrible thing to do, but I want to talk to you both about the war in Iraq and the loss of your son.

Ms. Palmer, did you sense that this war was very dangerous for your son, even before yesterday?

ROSEMARY PALMER, MOTHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, war is always dangerous. And there were so many deaths that it was starting to mount to the point where I was actually thinking yesterday that if Auggie (ph) were not among the 14 killed, I was almost to the point of calling the Department of Defense and just saying, for mental health reasons, he had to come home, that I couldn't handle it anymore. It was just too much.

MATTHEWS: What made you feel that the danger was growing?

PALMER: Well, it's the old game of the fewer. And the 325 unit that he's in has been having more and more casualties. And if you have fewer guys and the same number of people, well, then, the other—the chances are growing that your person is going to be the one that's hit.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Mr. Schroeder, why do you think we're in this war? What do you think is the real reason for this war in Iraq?

PAUL SCHROEDER, FATHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, I really don't know why. I could guess, which might be unfair. But I would guess it has to do with oil. It has to do with deposing a dictator that we used to love and came to hate.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SCHROEDER: That goes on repeatedly.

MATTHEWS: What did your son say was his motivation for fighting? Was it just patriotism to our country or a belief in the mission?

SCHROEDER: He did not have a motivation to fight. He had a motivation to do his duty to the Marine Corps and to be part of the Marines. His entire life was devoted to doing what he promised he would do.

MATTHEWS: What did he tell you...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What did he say about how the war was going?

SCHROEDER: Well, early on, when his unit arrived there in March, he was talking about the friendly Iraqi people. After May and June, he stopped talking about the friendly people, not that they weren't friendly. But he stopped talking about it.
Two weeks ago, in the last conversation I had with him, he simply said, the closer we get to coming home, the less worth it this is.

MATTHEWS: How did you interpret that?

SCHROEDER: I took that to mean that his participation in Operation Matador, Operation New Market, Operation Sword, Operation Spear, and a couple others that I don't know the names of were failing. And that's, basically, the operations were intended to go into these towns, kick out the insurgents, take their weapons, arrest whoever they could, and then they would withdraw.

They only had to go back and find more insurgents in the same places. The fact that these 14 fellows were blown up indicates to me, logic would say, that this policy, this strategy, this tactic has failed.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Rosemary...

SCHROEDER: If it was successful, if it was successful, then he would still be alive, as would all those other kids.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Rosemary, let me ask you about the—what is your feeling about this war and the goal of trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? And do you think that was a smart thing for us to try to do?

PALMER: It was a very naive thing for us to do.

You don't go to another culture and try to impose yours and expect it to work. We're not Iraqis. We don't have the same culture. And while I understand that we're a multicultural nation, we don't act like it sometimes. We act like the whole world thinks exactly the way we do.

MATTHEWS: Do you think that the war is going to get any better now that your son—I mean, you have paid the ultimate price? And, by the way, thank you. I don't know what it means to say thank you for your service, except I mean it. The courage of these young guys and some women over there is unbelievable. And I guess everybody wonders about the conduct of the war, whether they're being—these lives are being wasted or these lives are being put to good purpose.
What is your feeling about that now?

PALMER: Well, I personally believe that, since it is not working, then we have to make a change, that it is not worth the sacrifice if it is just more bodies on to the heap.

Like President Bush said, he wanted to stay the course and honor the memory of the ones who died by continuing to fight. If it didn't work before, why does fighting more—you know, you do the same thing over and over, that's—expecting a different result is, I think, the explanation of insanity.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

Well, the way you describe it, it is like pouring water into a sand hole on the beach and having it drain right through and start over again. It seems like a repetitive process that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

PALMER: Exactly.

SCHROEDER: Well, the repetitive process has been going on for 27 months, since the active invasion phase ended, 27 months of doing the same thing over and over and over again, with no evidence that it is getting better.

If there were evidence it was getting better—and I have yet to see it—and I—frankly, if it was getting better, these fellows would still be alive after all of this strenuous effort. Then it is time to make a change. Either put the number of troops on the ground that you need to really do the job or get the heck out.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense...

SCHROEDER: We have a saying—we have a saying in the Midwest, piss or get off the pot.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense, because of your son's tremendous, permanent, total sacrifice of his life and his experience in these months fighting this war, that the middle-level officers, the majors, the captains, do they have a sense of a clear vision of what they're getting done over there?

SCHROEDER: I can't speak to those fellows. I have great respect for the Marine officers at that level and the sergeants who made these troops, great respect.
I would tell you that they probably are frustrated, just like a lot of the ground troops, the lance corporals and the privates are. I would say that one thing that we have to make crystal clear, which is why we agreed to talk today,is that there is a—you cannot equate. There is a clear difference between supporting the troops on the ground and supporting the policies that put them there.

The president likes to make those—to equate those two things. If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. And too many American people are buying into that. I don't buy into that. Rosemary doesn't buy into that. It is time that we say, look, we can support the troops all until the cows come home.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHROEDER: We don't support the policies that put them there.

MATTHEWS: You two have more right to answer this question than anybody else in the country today. After reading those headline—and to most of us, they're just headlines. They're American G.I.s, Marines in this case, giving their lives for their country, 20-some this week, in that one part of the country in Iraq.

What should be the reaction of the American people who pick up their newspapers, watch television, and learn of these horrors? What should they do as a result of seeing that news, Mr. Schroeder?

SCHROEDER: They should stand up and tell President Bush, enough is enough. You've had your chance. Now let somebody else come up with a different plan. If you can't come up with a different plan that is going to work, in my view, that is more troops, then get out.

MATTHEWS: Rosemary, is that your view? Is that how we, all of us, not in the news business, regular Americans from your part of the country, across the country, getting this horrible news, how should they react to it?

PALMER: Well, I think most people are just saying, you know, the latter, just get out, because it is clearly—well, it is obvious that the politicians are not going to institute a draft. And with the number of deaths and the dangers being what they are, they are not going to get the recruits.

So, therefore, if you can't—you can't get enough guys to do the fighting, well, then you have to get out. Do it or get out of the game.

MATTHEWS: I got you. I heard your views and they sound similar.
Thank you very much for this hour of—this time of anguish, to be giving this information. I think the public needs to hear from folks like you.
Thank you very much, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, who lost their son, Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, just today, last 24 hours.
We'll be right back with HARDBALL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Coming up, a deadly period for U.S. forces in Iraq, more than 30 service members killed since Sunday. Is it time for the troops to come home or do we need more troops over there?

When HARDBALL returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
Retired Army Colonel Ken Allard is an MSNBC military analyst.
Colonel, thanks for coming on. It is a tough time to come on. We just heard from the Schroeder family. They lost their lance corporal son, killed over there in Iraq. They have strong feelings about it. I think the Midwestern expression was something I don't want to repeat right exactly.

 

My brother will be going to Iraq for his fourth time, soon. We don't know when, but he just re-enlisted.

Go, C.W.O.2 Rathburn. God speed to you, brother.

 

I'll bet Chris Matthews doesn't have a car.

Why would he need one?

He can slither around from one place to another like the snake he is.

 

I think we have defined victory and we can
bring our boys and girls home or draw down
significantly and this is not coming from the
left this is coming from left to right and now
the heartland..that is what I wanted to point out.

You can support the troops the family of the troops but the policy ..has gone from WMD's to
Democracy and the Democracy part with the new
Iraq/Iran alliance looks shaky and besides the
new constitution looks bad for women...bush stormed into Iraq and stopped at the Iran and
Syrian borders when in fact he had momentum and
it would have been a war of territory and not
what we have now , a war of horrific attrition where peoples limbs are blown in all directions.

I disagree with Pat Buchanan's one attitude about victory in his latest WND column he needs to not poke it too much but he does speak truth to power.

We need to get in the mindset of telling these
boys and girls they have won! and it is defined.

this "Bring em on!" speaks to me of stupidity
and engaging in quagmire..in other words increase
troops and treasure...well bush has not even
given a hint he will do that..in fact he floated
trial balloons through the Brits and U.S. press
and then Casey to draw down in Spring and I say
good! because it is an Iraqi face ..sectarian,
Iranian backed, tribal, ..a civil war ..

It comes down to a bullet point.

SHOULD AMERICAN BOYS AND GIRLS DIE FOR AN IRAQI
INTERNAL CIVIL WAR ..HEAVILY WEIGHTED TOWARDS THE
SHIITES.

YES OR NO

I SAY NO

Pat Buchanan

"Is America preparing to pull out of Iraq without victory? " (Even Pat Buchanan makes real boners,Pat it is plain stupid to say it is not a
defined victory)

snip:
U.S. forces in Iraq are thus today fighting in defense of a Shia-dominated regime that sees its future in close collaboration with an "axis-of-evil" nation Bush has declared a state sponsor of terror.

snippet:
Fourth, the new Iraqi constitution is reportedly not going to track the work of Madison and Hamilton, and women look like the big losers. If the new Iraq resembles Iran, Americans are unlikely to support having sons and daughters dying to defend such a regime, elected or not.


Bring them home while the luster of overthrowing
Saddam Hussien is still paramount in Americans
minds.

 

You can support the troops and not the policy
and that is the salient point of the parents
interviewed on Hardball and I agree with them.

It is important not to goosestep behind a bad
policy a populist movement can change things
and if they see a bad policy like the parents
who lost their son ..they have a right to speak
out against it as does Pat Buchanan op-ed.

Dragoon you equate supporting the troops to
support bush and the policy ..I don't see it
that way. imho

People can change things and when bush has
used deception and hype to get us in the war
the consequences of that is loss of trust and
we need to change our policy(which I think bush
may very well be doing)

I think the Job is done and much as it is going
to be by next spring.. Dragoon you need to see the reality of that
to keep putting out sound bites or slogans with
no meat to them ..only leads to quagmire.

The silly premise that the war in Iraq is preventing terrorists from fighting over here
is stupid and is another bush deception to
fear people up ..terrorists can walk across
our north/south border now!

From the parents/Hardball interview

PALMER: Well, I personally believe that, since it is not working, then we have to make a change, that it is not worth the sacrifice if it is just more bodies on to the heap.

Like President Bush said, he wanted to stay the course and honor the memory of the ones who died by continuing to fight. If it didn't work before, why does fighting more—you know, you do the same thing over and over, that's—expecting a different result is, I think, the explanation of insanity.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

Well, the way you describe it, it is like pouring water into a sand hole on the beach and having it drain right through and start over again. It seems like a repetitive process that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

PALMER: Exactly.

SCHROEDER: Well, the repetitive process has been going on for 27 months, since the active invasion phase ended, 27 months of doing the same thing over and over and over again, with no evidence that it is getting better.

If there were evidence it was getting better—and I have yet to see it—and I—frankly, if it was getting better, these fellows would still be alive after all of this strenuous effort. Then it is time to make a change. Either put the number of troops on the ground that you need to really do the job or get the heck out.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense...

SCHROEDER: We have a saying—we have a saying in the Midwest, piss or get off the pot.

snip

SCHROEDER: I can't speak to those fellows. I have great respect for the Marine officers at that level and the sergeants who made these troops, great respect.
I would tell you that they probably are frustrated, just like a lot of the ground troops, the lance corporals and the privates are. I would say that one thing that we have to make crystal clear, which is why we agreed to talk today,is that there is a—you cannot equate. There is a clear difference between supporting the troops on the ground and supporting the policies that put them there.

The president likes to make those—to equate those two things. If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. And too many American people are buying into that. I don't buy into that. Rosemary doesn't buy into that. It is time that we say, look, we can support the troops all until the cows come home.


People are supporting the troops and as for
the cause it has been won and they can draw down
very soon.

Defined victory:

1.overthrow of Saddam
2.elections
3.government
4. soon a constitution
5. infrastructure
6. tax payers money to help Iraqi people
7. Hospitials and schools
etc and more.

that cause as defined has been won but you need
to get it through you thick skull draggon that
the American people will not stand for a referee
in the middle of a civil war ..where american
boys and girls get blown up...the numbers will
not support a quagmire such as that.

AMERICANS WILL DIE FIGHTING FOR OUR LIBERTY
BUT WILL THEY DIE FIGHTING FOR IRAQI LIBERTY
AMONG A CIVIL WAR OF KURD,SHIA, AND SHIITE.

I say no...they have done their best and achieved
victory but to ask them to referee an internal
squabble the American people are already questioning that and will influence its outcome
not some policy or president ..the American people
will decide sooner or later.

 

Today's five year olds are tomorrow's fighting forces.

Why do we do what we do? We do this now so that maybe that five year old does not have to later.

Can anyone argue with that or would you be just fine with passing that buck?

 

I reckon your up against some technical masters of repudiating morality while laying claim to it in this thread ASLANSPAL.

The cause is always just, just because we are always told it is, nevermind the man behind the curtain he isn't important.

 

Ohhh, sounds very draconian. Opps I meant wizard of ozian.

 

Ohhh, sounds very draconian. Opps I meant wizard of ozian. </font>[/QUOTE]I believe the word your searching for is Ozwellian.

 

"Today's five year olds are tomorrow's fighting forces."

Is that why so many of todays cartoons are so militaristic? Are we training five year olds early to do their part in the future?

"Why do we do what we do? We do this now so that maybe that five year old does not have to later."

I thought you were just following orders. That five year old now will probably never enjoy freedom or rights apart from what the government is willing to grant him/her 13 years from now.

"Can anyone argue with that or would you be just fine with passing that buck?"

Argue with "Today's troops are tomorrow's veterans"? why would anyone argue that?

"Excellent! We secure liberty for those who will follow after us just as our ancestors did for us!"

Very patritotic sounding, but your ignoring the facts again Dragoon.

Your not securing liberty when you support a government that seeks to limit that liberty with Patritot Act(s), national ID's, and biometric tracking devices and a congress that is willing to give up the power duly given them by the people of the United States through a constitution to unelected global officials that will dictate policy on every American. Your being used as a tool of globalism, the muscle for elite interests. You've allowed yourself to be sold a bill of goods wrapped in the flag and coated with propaganda taylored to your weakness. Pride, national and self.