Side comments on the "William & Myself" thread...

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
God wrote only One Book.

Then my beloved Japanese believers and I are in trouble. How can we have a Japanese Bible if there is only one and it is in English?? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you forget one verse: Romans 16:26? God provided His Words to all nations. In the USA Americans have most accurate translation for their mother tongue: the KJV! So is England. God provided His one Book to Japan: most accurate translation. He provided His one Book to each nation. </font>[/QUOTE]But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV.

Oh I see. Please check with Trinitrain (Spell??) Bible Society or GraceWay Bible Society if they have Japanese TR Bible. I hope they will help you.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV.

Oh I see. Please check with Trinitrain (Spell??) Bible Society or GraceWay Bible Society if they have Japanese TR Bible. I hope they will help you. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't need to check with the Trinitarian Bible Society. I have been here in Japan for 25 years and know the situation far better than they do. In fact, I've written a pamphlet on the history of the Japanese Bible which you may have in MS Word format if you PM me.

My point here is that the KJVO position does not hold water on many mission fields. If I have no TR-based Bible in Japanese does that mean the Japanese have no Bible? Of course not. I will use the Shinkaiyaku Bible, based on Nestle's Greek text, until such a time as a TR-based version is available in Japanese.

There is no "one Bible" for most languages in the world, therefore the KJVO position is inconsistent. For your doctrine to be correct it must be universal. That is, God's truth can be understood in all languages and cultures, but the KJVO position cannot be understood in the Japanese language and culture, therefore it is wrong.

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
God wrote only One Book.

Then my beloved Japanese believers and I are in trouble. How can we have a Japanese Bible if there is only one and it is in English?? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you forget one verse: Romans 16:26? God provided His Words to all nations. In the USA Americans have most accurate translation for their mother tongue: the KJV! So is England. God provided His one Book to Japan: most accurate translation. He provided His one Book to each nation. </font>[/QUOTE]But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV. </font>[/QUOTE]Read Hebrews 4:3 [personal attack snipped] . No one said in English only I'm sure God's Word can be translated into any Asian language as he did with the AV 1611. I'll say it Again God only wrote one book!~

[ April 15, 2006, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV.

Oh I see. Please check with Trinitrain (Spell??) Bible Society or GraceWay Bible Society if they have Japanese TR Bible. I hope they will help you. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't need to check with the Trinitarian Bible Society. I have been here in Japan for 25 years and know the situation far better than they do. In fact, I've written a pamphlet on the history of the Japanese Bible which you may have in MS Word format if you PM me.

My point here is that the KJVO position does not hold water on many mission fields. If I have no TR-based Bible in Japanese does that mean the Japanese have no Bible? Of course not. I will use the Shinkaiyaku Bible, based on Nestle's Greek text, until such a time as a TR-based version is available in Japanese.

There is no "one Bible" for most languages in the world, therefore the KJVO position is inconsistent. For your doctrine to be correct it must be universal. That is, God's truth can be understood in all languages and cultures, but the KJVO position cannot be understood in the Japanese language and culture, therefore it is wrong. </font>[/QUOTE]Why didnt Paul go to Asia in the 1st century church era? Why did the Holy Ghost re- direct their course ? so you could GO INTO ALL NATIONS AND PREACH AND TEACH HIS WORD. IF YOU speak English (and some Japanese do too) YOU need A KJB IF you dont the the LORD will Provide a JAPANESE translation. Stick to tradition and not the teachings of man, but the teachings of God. If you dont have a KJB then get one, [personal attack snipped]

[ April 15, 2006, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Mr. Correa:How can I Expose and rebuke and exhort and correct if I cant Identify certain Frauds and blatent attacks on all that has been said so far in order to keep it fair? just bleep them out? Thanx and God bless

A little PROOF would help. I can call the
"Good As New" a joke and a corruption by the fact that it clearly doesn't follow any known Scriptural sources too closely. And for you to truthfully rag upon other versions besides the KJV and upon other manuscripts besides those used to make the KJV, you need PROOF. Try saying, "The King George Codex is a fraud because...(proof)."

And I don't see one bleep of SCRIPTURE supporting your assertions. You're just wasting your time if you cannot back up your "data" with SCRIPTURE. [/Q How much do you need?
The Devil's Attack On The Bible

[please see links below for copyrighted material]

[ April 15, 2006, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by rsr:
William should be told that it is appropriate to credit sources that one copies and pastes verbatim.

http://eaec.org/bibleversions/attack_on_the_bible.htm

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/gal61.html

http://www.patriotist.com/kjv-proofs.htm

It's clear that he really has no knowledge of the issues but is parroting KJVO sites.

I would rather be God' Parrot any day than the devils Pirate! But thanks for the links you have written them for me. Do you see a " FOR SALE " sign on My Post's. God lives in my heart, thank you Jesus for answered prayer in Jesus name AMEN!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
God wrote only One Book.

Right. And it has been a human effort in accordance with the providence of God to preserve the words of that Book and to translate it into various "vulgar" tongues. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Brother Scott J. -- Preach it!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Ed, I think we have a post here that belongs in the Politics area. Would you like me to move it or just delete it? Unless you are answering Robycops questions regarding the KJVO issue with conspiracy theories?

Easy mistake to make, just the wrong thread.

Just delete it, my bad
I put it on the wrong Forum

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
God wrote only One Book.

Then my beloved Japanese believers and I are in trouble. How can we have a Japanese Bible if there is only one and it is in English?? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you forget one verse: Romans 16:26? God provided His Words to all nations. In the USA Americans have most accurate translation for their mother tongue: the KJV! So is England. God provided His one Book to Japan: most accurate translation. He provided His one Book to each nation. </font>[/QUOTE]Which book did He give Ireland? Spain? France? Germany? Angola? South Africa? Australia? China?
Luxumbourg?

Could you please provide proof for each example?
Thnaks in advance for your help.

 

[william s. correa]

Figures following the Bible versions named below indicate the number of Scripture portions changed from the reading of the Textus Receptus out of 162 references.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/god_wrote_only_one_bible-fuller.htm

[ April 15, 2006, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
God wrote only One Book.

Then my beloved Japanese believers and I are in trouble. How can we have a Japanese Bible if there is only one and it is in English?? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you forget one verse: Romans 16:26? God provided His Words to all nations. In the USA Americans have most accurate translation for their mother tongue: the KJV! So is England. God provided His one Book to Japan: most accurate translation. He provided His one Book to each nation. </font>[/QUOTE]Which book did He give Ireland? Spain? France? Germany? Angola? South Africa? Australia? China?
Luxumbourg?

Could you please provide proof for each example?
Thnaks in advance for your help. </font>[/QUOTE]

QUESTION: If there is a perfect Bible in English, doesn't there also have to be a perfect Bible in French, and German, and Japanese, etc?

ANSWER: No. God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job; convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice.

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_07.asp

[ April 15, 2006, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

William,

I have corrected your last two posts to credit your sources. Moderators do not have time to search the internet for quotes in order to source them. Future unsourced quotes will simply be deleted.

The purpose of a debate forum is to post our ideas and thoughts. Outside sources should be used to support our views. Copying and pasting from other sources is not truly debate.

Roger
C4K
Moderator

[ April 15, 2006, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
But in Japanese we have no translation in print from the TR, like the KJV is. So by definition all I have to use is a MV.

Read Hebrews 4:3 [personal attack snipped] . No one said in English only I'm sure God's Word can be translated into any Asian language as he did with the AV 1611. I'll say it Again God only wrote one book!~ </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, so how do I tell which Bible is the "one book" in Japanese? Must it be translated from the KJV? Is the TR good enough? Is a version translated from a modern Greek text okay as long as it is not an English Bible?

This may be theoretical to some people, but to the 110 plus IFB missionaries in Japan and the many Japanese IFB pastors, it is a problem RIGHT NOW! So, do you have any advice for me from the KJVO viewpoint? How do I choose my Bible translation in Japan?

It is even more difficult in Spanish-speaking countries. They have two competing Bibles in their language, each of which is claimed to be a "KJV-type" Bible. What are some Biblical principles you can give the missionaries there as to how to choose which one to use?

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Figures following the Bible versions named below indicate the number of Scripture portions changed from the reading of the Textus Receptus out of 162 references.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/god_wrote_only_one_bible-fuller.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Shoking evidence

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

The problem with Bibles is not the translation; it's that people are neither reading nor following them.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Figures following the Bible versions named below indicate the number of Scripture portions changed from the reading of the Textus Receptus out of 162 references.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/god_wrote_only_one_bible-fuller.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Shoking evidence </font>[/QUOTE]William, I have read John Jasper Ray's book, God Only Wrote One Bible, and I noticed something about it. While Ray only uses the KJV in his book, he misquotes it several times. Does that take the power out of his quotes and make them another Bible?

Let me put it another way. If a preacher doesn't quite get the KJV quote right in his sermon, isn't he then quoting from another Bible, the one in his memory? Is his Bible then ineffective?

Let me try again. What if you are witnessing to some one and you say, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes on him...." And you misquote the KJV and say "whoever" instead of "whosoever." Are you then destroying the power of the Word of God?

If in these three cases the power of the KJV is not destroyed, then you are being inconsistent. You evidently believe that if a translation differs at all from the KJV it is wrong. But that is exactly what happens every day all over the US and other English speaking countries when they misquote the KJV in their sermons or witnessing.

Now please don't get angry at me or spiteful with me. I'm a language professional, working every day of my life in at least three languages. I'm trying to help you see that what makes the KJV so special is the truths it gives us, not the exact way it says them. As a pro, I can tell you that a translation can be a little bit different and still convey God's truth.

 

[robycop3]

Mr. Correa, you're not gonna get anywhere quoting the likes of Ray, Fuller, Chick, Gipp, etc. who are all part of the KJVO "party line" that began with 7TH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Benjamin Wilkinson. To say they are dubious sources is putting it mildly. All those gents have been proven wrong in other matters familiar to the veteran readership here.

If you cannot back up your claims FROM SCRIPTURE, you're just wasting your time.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
The problem with Bibles is not the translation; it's that people are neither reading nor following them.

AMEN!

However, some versions are easier to read/follow than others.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Figures following the Bible versions named below indicate the number of Scripture portions changed from the reading of the Textus Receptus out of 162 references.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/god_wrote_only_one_bible-fuller.htm </font>[/QUOTE]Shoking evidence </font>[/QUOTE]Shocking evidence of WHAT?

Remember, Fuller copied J.J.Ray, who copied 7TH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Ben Wilkinson. Those are not exactly reliable sources. And Dr. Fuller has been found wrong in many of his assertions, such as those about the Syriac Peshitta. They have been discussed here before, and I'm NOT gonna bore everyone by going over them again.

Don't think those Katz koppied each other? Here's an example. In Our Authorized Bible Vindicated, Dr. Wilkinson uses Psalm 12:7 as a "proof verse" to show God has preserved His word. This assertion is proven false by the AV 1611 itself as well as by every other valid version. A little research reveals the error of this assertion.

If you have access to a copy of the AV 1611, please note that them is italicized. The AV translators frequently did this to show their words weren't a direct literal translation. Now, see the little dagger beside the second them? The corresponding dagger is beside this marginal note, "Heb.him, I. euery one of them". Plainly, the AV men knew this verse is about PEOPLE.

From the Bishop's Bible:

[Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer.

From the Geneva Bible:

Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer.



This begs the question: If V7 actually is about God's words, where's the SLIGHTEST implication it's about ONLY the KJV and none other? I have yet to see a legit BV that doesn't include Psalm 12:7. Why couldn't it be applied to every other version?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

No brainer: What version(s) are not included in "all Scripture" ?

This is the difference in our "evidences". YOU quote from dubious human sources, while I let the Bible versions "speak" for themselves. Again, unless you can use SCRIPTURAL evidence to back up your assertions, they remain unsubstantiated guesswork.