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Sign Gifts
- Thread starter Berean
- Start date
eucharisteo
New Member
berean ask, "What scripture support discontinuation of sign gifts?"
Ephesians 2:19-20, 2 Peter 1:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Ephesians 2:19-20, 2 Peter 1:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
eucharisteo
New Member
Berean ask, "
What scripture support discontinuation of sign gifts?"
Eph 2:19-20, 2 Pet 1:19-21, and 2 Tim 3:16-17.
Perhaps you are listing the wrong Scriptures, but I haven’t found anything authoritative to even suggest these Scriptures you offered have anything to do with any gifts, much less selecting out a particular one.
Do you have something in hand concerning these offered or some others to address the topic?
eucharisteo
New Member
agedman states, "Perhaps you are listing the wrong Scriptures, but I haven’t found anything authoritative to even suggest these Scriptures you offered have anything to do with any gifts,"
Sir, the Scriptures I provided define and explain the foundation the gifts were built upon.
The scriptures when read shows us and tells us why the gifts have ceased...
[Edited: Insulting question removed]
Sir, the Scriptures I provided define and explain the foundation the gifts were built upon.
The scriptures when read shows us and tells us why the gifts have ceased...
[Edited: Insulting question removed]
Last edited by a moderator:
I looked at your references.
Found nothing to suggest what your post above declares.
So, at this point, it would be wise to actually post each Scripture and highlight what that passage means to the topic.
Last edited by a moderator:
Joseph shall add
Member
It could be argued that when no gifting is seen that there is no obedience to God and no Love. Where there is no love in operation no power released in the spiritual realm. To say that the gifts are done away with would be equal to saying God made a error in his gifting provision of the church. To declare there are no apostles and prophets would be the same as saying God original design was not correct and he changed it after the first apostle. Which would in error.
We have the testimony of the apostles Joseph. The scripture, the epistles, letters and the Revelation. infallible, inerrant.
It is apparently all we need. That with the infilling of the Holy Spirit and those with the enduring gifts to guide us.
Joseph shall add
Member
Another way of saying what i am saying is this. If you be flesh you do not pertain of the gifts of the spirit and you will not operate in those gifts. If you indeed are now spirit and are not operating in the gifts of the spirit that is because you are ruled by the flesh and not the spirit. In other word you have not subjected your flesh to the grave, that your spirit may rule over your flesh desires. You have the bible in your hands to read, But reading the bible does not mean it got into your heart or you head, Sometime that word falls on stony ground and some time the ground is not prepared. As a example of growth look at the great servant of God Moses, do you think he is flesh was being brought into death in the wilderness, that was why he was in the wilderness, being prepared for the work to come. Another example is King David when he was driven on the caves his flesh was being subjected to death that his spirit would rule him. While it appears that today we have many people saying God ways have changed and he does not do that anymore. I would declare that is but an a excuse to justify a sinful peoples walk. Moses was not Moses until he left the world and set his heart on God. David was not a King until he walked away from the bed of the Harlot and embraced God calling. Simple said until you desire to walk away from sin and the flesh you shall never operate in the gifts of the spirit. The Gifts of God are eternal and shall always be. God word is of a eternal nature. God word has declared that this is how it is, it remains. His word does not pass away.
Are you straining at a nap unable trying to justify sin and denouncing God word and gifts, as the heathen do. Why would you suppose that that would be God will? Jesus said i am from above and i know the Father, you are from below. He was speaking to Hebrews. He also said to them your fathers killed the prophets and there blood is on your because you approve of there deeds. Jesus had a way with words.
Are you straining at a nap unable trying to justify sin and denouncing God word and gifts, as the heathen do. Why would you suppose that that would be God will? Jesus said i am from above and i know the Father, you are from below. He was speaking to Hebrews. He also said to them your fathers killed the prophets and there blood is on your because you approve of there deeds. Jesus had a way with words.
Israel was an illustration of an unregenerate people with which God had made a covenant which of course they broke
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
No divine covenant can succeed with fallen humanity
Why? Because:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The heart must be changed by God.
Jeremiah 31
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
In AD70 the Temple was destroyed by the Romans, the priests killed and biblical Judaism ceased...
Hebrews 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
easiest answer is that there are no more sign gifts operating as the normal pattern since Apostolic Age!
Joseph shall add
Member
Another way to look at the gifts of God is this. God is building you up as a Holy House to serve his good pleasure not your good pleasure. And He alone determines whom will sit at his right hand and his left hand. Thus those whom will rule with him are trained by him. And not all are the same in this respect. And if you are not trained by him, you may not be gifted at all. And if you refuse hardship then you failed the test and are unusable to him.
the Holy Spirit Himself determines who gets what gifts, and all who are saved have at least one to use!
Joseph shall add
Member
Actually i would say that indeed gifts of the spirit have been in full operation ever since the time of the apostles. For there have been these things recorded in the bible that declare they are in full force. There are known prophets recorded in the scriptures after all the apostles had died. And while the Baptist declare that there are no Apostle other then the original 12. That flies int he face of the fact that God gave us the the exact model of the church as Apostles, Prophets, Preachers, Ect and the models he has not changed.
Now there is a time for all things appointed for all things. The church age is appointed for a set time. Until that time is over God pattern for the leadership of the church shall not change.
Now there is a time for all things appointed for all things. The church age is appointed for a set time. Until that time is over God pattern for the leadership of the church shall not change.
there have NO Apostles/Prophets in the Church since John passed away!
Joseph shall add
Member
How would you know friend?
The Holy spirit inspiration was granted by jesus JUST to the 11 Apostles, and Paul!
Joseph shall add
Member
So you say that the Holy Spirit does not give inspiration today? Then God would be a respecter of persons. Actually the Holy Spirit operate in all the same as he did in the apostles. All have to ask and received him. Christ spirit is imparted to you at the time of salvation by the Holy Spirit by which you become a regenerated spirit before God. Christ has said in his own words when you become loving toward the Father, if you all ask me for the Comforter i will ask the Father and he will send him to you. When have you ask the Lord for the Holy Spirit?
The miraculous gifts have all passed away. 1 Corinthians 13 makes that clear.
Either accept it or reject it. But reject the word of God at your own peril.
The purpose of the gifts is gone. The authentication of the authentication of the word of God. The bible is complete. No additional authentication needed.
The last Apostle died around 100AD. There are no more Apostles.
Peter makes it very clear that the requirements to be an Apostle was to
have accompanied the other 11 all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among them, and beginning from the baptism of John, to the day that He was received up from them, of these one must become a witness with them of His resurrection.”
#1. Been with the others from the very beginning, the baptism of John.
#2. With them as a witness of the resurrection/ascension.
Any person who claims to be an Apostle today is a liar and a minion of Satan.
Either accept it or reject it. But reject the word of God at your own peril.
The purpose of the gifts is gone. The authentication of the authentication of the word of God. The bible is complete. No additional authentication needed.
The last Apostle died around 100AD. There are no more Apostles.
Peter makes it very clear that the requirements to be an Apostle was to
have accompanied the other 11 all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among them, and beginning from the baptism of John, to the day that He was received up from them, of these one must become a witness with them of His resurrection.”
#1. Been with the others from the very beginning, the baptism of John.
#2. With them as a witness of the resurrection/ascension.
Any person who claims to be an Apostle today is a liar and a minion of Satan.
None have been inspired to be able to awrite/add additional revelations from God since death of John, and ALL Christians have the Holy Spirit at rebirth, no need to ask Jesus to send Him, as He come automatically in us once converted to Christ!
Do you hold to a "Baptism in the Holy Ghost" experience?