Sign Gifts

[Joseph shall add]

Could you be so kind as to please educated me and shown me a single scriptures that states all born again get the Holy Spirit of God at the birth. For the Scriptures are clear on this. The spirit of Jesus is the living waters of which all must drink to be saved. That is not the Holy Spirit. That is the Spirit of Jesus. Remember the woman at the well. Jesus said to her if you had ask me i would have given you living waters. He was speaking of his own spirit or which he states drink. He whom does not drink my blood and my flesh has no part of me. You are sealed with the Spirit of Christ by the Holy Spirit. This is the new birth in a nut shell. Christ spirit in grafted onto your spirit by which you are regenerated into a living spirit before the Father once again. This the Light of God has restored you. The Holy Spirit is the one whom empowers you. After salvation. He walks with you at salvation but does not move into the temple until the temple is prepared for the Father. He is the Fathers ambassador on earth to each believer. He sits as God in the heart of the believed once the high priest has prepared the person. Just as it was in the bible that the Holy Spirit walked beside Christ and is seen on him before the wilderness excrescence and then is in him after the wilderness experience it is with you. The bible states you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes that happens when he infills the temple.

 

[HankD]

Could you be so kind as to please educated me and shown me a single scriptures that states all born again get the Holy Spirit of God at the birth. For the Scriptures are clear on this. The spirit of Jesus is the living waters of which all must drink to be saved. That is not the Holy Spirit. That is the Spirit of Jesus. Remember the woman at the well. Jesus said to her if you had ask me i would have given you living waters. He was speaking of his own spirit or which he states drink. He whom does not drink my blood and my flesh has no part of me. You are sealed with the Spirit of Christ by the Holy Spirit. This is the new birth in a nut shell. Christ spirit in grafted onto your spirit by which you are regenerated into a living spirit before the Father once again. This the Light of God has restored you. The Holy Spirit is the one whom empowers you. After salvation. He walks with you at salvation but does not move into the temple until the temple is prepared for the Father. He is the Fathers ambassador on earth to each believer. He sits as God in the heart of the believed once the high priest has prepared the person. Just as it was in the bible that the Holy Spirit walked beside Christ and is seen on him before the wilderness excrescence and then is in him after the wilderness experience it is with you. The bible states you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes that happens when he infills the temple.

JSA - You ask for a single scripture that states all born again believers receive the Holy Spirit of God at the new birth.

However in the post above you make several statements (e.g. "Christ spirit is grafted onto your spirit by which you are regenerated into a living spirit before the Father once again") and you yourself offer not one scripture for your claims.

Is it fair that you should expect what you yourself are not willing to give?

 

[Joseph shall add]

Actually i am mowing the lawn and taking a cool off break. But here Goes. Did not Christ say i am the living waters and give life the all whom come to me. They drink in his spirit. He is the life giving spirit. You have a bible you should be able to disprove me. Got to finish up the lawn before Easter.

 

[HankD]

Actually i am mowing the lawn and taking a cool off break. But here Goes. Did not Christ say i am the living waters and give life the all whom come to me. They drink in his spirit. He is the life giving spirit. You have a bible you should be able to disprove me. Got to finish up the lawn before Easter.

but JSA you really shouldn't criticize us for that which you yourself won't do.

You still haven't given us the scripture.

But for the sake of the discussion I will do it for those scripture I believe you are addressing

John 4
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

John 7
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Verse 7:39 plainly indicates that Jesus meant the "Holy Ghost" by the phrase "living water".
Where do you get the "Spirit of Christ" from in either of these passages?

Also you use the word "Graft" as that relationship to us, you said "grafted onto your spirit".
Where in scripture do we find the word "graft" when it comes to the new birth relationship of the Holy Spirit and our spirit?

Thanks
HankD

 

[Joseph shall add]

Man am i hot. Revelation and behold a river of living water was seen flowing from the thrown of God. This is the river of living water flowing form under the seat of Christ. This is the river of Life, the Spirit of the Lamb of God whom gives life to all whom drink of his spirit. The Holy Spirit is whom administers the living waters to a believer. And if you do not drink of his spirit you are indeed not his. More over it is writer that he whom drinks of the living waters will never thrust again. A one time even, that of salvation. But all Christians thrust for the Written word. The Holy Spirit is not the same as the Spirit of Christ. For the nation of Israel has the Holy Spirit by we partake of Christ very own own spirit. Lease be die in sin. He who is born from above can't sin. His seed remains in him. That seed being the born again regenerate spirit that is grafted to Christ own spirit. But the flesh can sin. The mind of the flesh wars against the Spirit. Back to mowing.

 

[TCassidy]

Back to mowing.

Good idea!

Reminds me of the joke going around when I was in Seminary.

One student, older than the rest was terrible. He didn't seem to understand anything. He failed every class. Finally the Dean called him into his office and asked him why he was there. The student said because he believed God had called him into the ministry.

The student said that as he was out plowing, he looked up in the sky and saw the clouds had formed into a huge PC shape. The student said he believed that was his calling, the PC was for Preach Christ!

The Dean responded by saying, did you ever consider that it meant Plow Corn?

Keep mowing.

 

[Joseph shall add]

Great new the front yard is done. Simple said that Water that was poured out from the rock in the wilderness was Christ Spirit. That river flowing from the right hand of God is Christ Spirit and that drink that all must drink is Christ very own spirit by which one is saved. With out these spiritual water you are still dead in your sins. And not born again. Time to Pray, God bless all and may you wake up tomorrow less carnal then today.

 

[HankD]

Great new the front yard is done. Simple said that Water that was poured out from the rock in the wilderness was Christ Spirit. That river flowing from the right hand of God is Christ Spirit and that drink that all must drink is Christ very own spirit by which one is saved. With out these spiritual water you are still dead in your sins. And not born again. Time to Pray, God bless all and may you wake up tomorrow less carnal then today.

Hmm, JSA Are you OK?

 

[TCassidy]

Let's get back on topic. "Sign gifts." No more "water from the rock or because you don't speak in tongues are you carnal or maybe even lost."

 

[HankD]

Let's get back on topic. "Sign gifts." No more "water from the rock or because you don't speak in tongues are you carnal or maybe even lost."

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

If the message was confirmed (completed action in past time) then the confirmation is no longer needed.
In addition "them that heard Him" are no longer here on earth with us so the signs and wonders ceased with them.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

The actual explanation of how the gifts work proves some have not shown up in church history as repeatable gifts. I have heard of very, very few people with xenoglossia in Church history, all through John of Japan. It just seems obvious that healing, miracles, and prophecy are gone. This was a big help to getting em out of sin by going back to the Charismatic movement. The gifts will work like in the bible, that or they aren't real or aren't from God.

 

[Joseph shall add]

Interesting words. When considering what else the bible states, i must just be mature. According to the bible he whom speaks in tongues speaks directly to God and needs no mediator. But those whom are not mature needs a mediator to present there words to God.
When i was a child i am sure i needed one as well. But now i boldly come into the my Father presents. Father God is the Great I AM. Not the great could be or might be, He is the I AM and he states YOU ARE. You are my beloved. You are my chosen, You are my gifted, your are my sons and my daughters. And i am positive he thinks some are nuts. As all parents do. Simple said. Not all have wisdom, Not all have gifts, Not all understand and not all will operate in the gifts. Nor will all understand the need for the gifts nor the eternal nature of the gifts. The gifts or God are in existence for the entire church age, directly tethered to the the church mission. Thus to state the gifts are done away with would be a indication that church age has closed. I was in church yesterday had 6 people get saved. Now many got saved at your church? And we had some of the worse singing you ever heard. But God i am sure received it well, as the singers were 2 years old. It was cute, but hard on the ears. They let there little light shine.
The operation of the gifts are co-dependent on a few factors, First the condition of the heart, Second the condition of the mind. And other factors as well. But we should address the simple truth, it is Gods desire that all be gifted for the benefit of the Church and the lifting up of the Church. When you go to church why do you go, whom do you serve. Every gift is to be used to benefit the body of Christ and as a sign for the believer, not the unbeliever. So once again why do you go to church?
The purpose of going to church should be for growth, maturity and the serve. The gifts are tools of service unto the body of Christ. If you do not serve then you should not expect to understand the gifts nor to be gifted. I for one across the span of my many years have operated in different gifting as the Lord desired. Sometime in remarkable ways. Sometime just giving a person a hand up, at other time giving a word of correction.
A wise Jewish man one said if it of God you can't stop it and would be fighting against GOD. Let it alone. If you would do a little actually research you might find out the following facts the BAPTIST operated in the gifts at there founding. And did so for many years. And many of the BAPTIST do till this very day. Your lack of experience in the use and operation of the gifts does not undo the word of the Living God. The Bible has plainly stated all things have a time and a season. Just as with anything, Often times the gifts will show up in a christian life for a season. God becomes the I AM. He uses the gifts in the submitted vessel as needed for his purposes. If you are not usable, no gifts.
When kicking against the word of God, i recommend determining why you are doing so and whom you serve. It is either Gods word or it is not. But it is not wise to speak beyond what is written.

 

[Joseph shall add]

Just a few scriptures about the reason there is a lack of God moving in some churches and why you do not love in the gifts and see healing done.

Mark 7:13 Making the Word of God of none effect by your tradition, "which ye have delivered": and many such like things".

As i am in agreement with Father In that his will is for all his people to experience greater and greater manifestations of Gods divine nature and blessing. That he may be exalted in seeing there progress and growth in truth and understanding of his divine nature and word. I pose the above scripture that you might find what is hindering you from seeing Father God move in a great way in your assembly.

Matthew 13:58 And he did not many miracles there because of there unbelief.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. – Hebrews 10:26

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. – Hebrews 10:31

 

[HankD]

Just a few scriptures about the reason there is a lack of God moving in some churches and why you do not love in the gifts and see healing done.

You have unfairly accused me publicly.
I love the gifts of God.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
I have seen healing.
James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[Joseph shall add]

I would never accuse of anything HankD other then being a bearded Baptist.

 

[HankD]

I would never accuse of anything HankD other then being a bearded Baptist.

Oh, OK.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Just a few scriptures about the reason there is a lack of God moving in some churches and why you do not love in the gifts and see healing done.

Mark 7:13 Making the Word of God of none effect by your tradition, "which ye have delivered": and many such like things".

As i am in agreement with Father In that his will is for all his people to experience greater and greater manifestations of Gods divine nature and blessing. That he may be exalted in seeing there progress and growth in truth and understanding of his divine nature and word. I pose the above scripture that you might find what is hindering you from seeing Father God move in a great way in your assembly.

Matthew 13:58 And he did not many miracles there because of there unbelief.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. – Hebrews 10:26

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. – Hebrews 10:31

OK, I must state that you are accusing me of being a child of God less loved than the Pentecostals/Charismatics/NAR churchgoers.

By quoting Hebrews 10:26, 31 it also feels like you even challenge the veracity of my saving faith.

I will be honest and straightforward by saying that I believe if you are receiving prophecies like those in the Pentecostal/Charismatic/NAR movements, then it is from demonic agents trying to pull you away from the Gospel.

Exodus 13:1-5 tells us to be wary of those who foretell the future or perform signs and wonders, but who lead us away form the LORD our God.

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow.

We do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit by challenging false prophets. Instead, we delight him because we challenge those claiming to speak for Him but aren't.

This website helped me leave the New Apostolic Reformation churches and I hope you will at least look it over.

The Mike Bickle and IHOP Cornucopia of False Teaching, Bridal Weirdness and 24/7 Confusion

Berean Examiner

 

[Steven Yeadon]

These page also helped me:

Prophesy | The Gospel Masquerade

Cessationism. Have the Sign Gifts Ceased?

 

[Joseph shall add]

Steven Yeadon i have only pointed to the Holy Scriptures of the Most High God. I have also stated that not all have the gifts. So if you toes got stepped on i am sorry but i can point to no other then my Father words for you education in the faith. If you will notice i was not speaking to you child i was speaking about the church and why the gifts are not being seen in your churches. The gifts of God are in effect for the church age. The condition of the heart of the faithful along with a failure to deal with sins leads to a powerless church and a place were the Holy Spirit is not going to work greatly. As he is being limited by the traditions of the church.
As for walking with God i stand as accused. And yes he shows me a great many things. As he does all the faithful whom depart from living a life of flesh and start seeking to live a Holy Life. Holiness have its rewards. If you are so wrapped up in the world that it is a god before God. Expect the gifts not the be in operation in your life.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Steven Yeadon i have only pointed to the Holy Scriptures of the Most High God. I have also stated that not all have the gifts. So if you toes got stepped on i am sorry but i can point to no other then my Father words for you education in the faith. If you will notice i was not speaking to you child i was speaking about the church and why the gifts are not being seen in your churches. The gifts of God are in effect for the church age. The condition of the heart of the faithful along with a failure to deal with sins leads to a powerless church and a place were the Holy Spirit is not going to work greatly. As he is being limited by the traditions of the church.
As for walking with God i stand as accused. And yes he shows me a great many things. As he does all the faithful whom depart from living a life of flesh and start seeking to live a Holy Life. Holiness have its rewards. If you are so wrapped up in the world that it is a god before God. Expect the gifts not the be in operation in your life.

You have no idea how uninformed about my life you sound to me.

The biggest goal of my life for two years has been to walk in holiness, free of sin, and to obey and know Him who was crucified for me, for us. I have accepted a fool's wager to turn on all my sin and to constantly strive to be free of it, despite having to learn and relearn perseverance by doing so. I am ever weary of doing good but I take courage and heart in His Word. I am a persevering do-gooder instead of a Christian who allows even a hint of unholiness, as almost every believer I meet nowadays allows. I have tried hard to make it a habit not to sin, even still I commit egregious sins by not knowing it such as turning back to the super-apostles of Charismaticism, I have had to learn humility and contentment in greater portion all the time, as I was and partially remain a man who struggles with pride and luxury.

Yet, I am a disabled man who is on a regularly in tormenting pain from a variety of chronic pain illnesses on top of my daily struggle with mental illness. I have yet to go more than a month without seeing a doctor, including at the ER, for some emergency for months now, maybe a year. I have struggled mightily to run my race. Yet, I have succumbed to sin myself, the sin of being complacent with life (foolishness) and the sin of not sharing the Gospel as much as I should (going against my conscience). I now battle sins often passed over by many people I know in the Church.

I am convinced that Satan has deceived you through his super-apostles who rule and reign in the Charismatic/Pentecostal/NAR movements. I see rebuke and reproof will likely accomplish little, as you may consider it accusation. So, I will have to turn to prayer for yourself and all those deceived by the Charismatics, Pentecostals, and New Apostolic Reformation. May the LORD free you, as He has me.