Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !

[The Archangel]

archangel

Evading the Truth is what you are doing, and nothing else !

What does Col 1:16 say ?

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

What is that word by in the original scholar joe ?

A scholar, was Adam Created ? Yes or No ?

Adam was created, yes. That has never been a point of debate. When Adam was created, God declared the creation as "Very good." The "by" in Colossians 1:16 is ἐν plus the dative which is:

...A marker of agent, often with the implication of an agent being used as an instrument, and in some instances relating to general behavior rather than to some specific event

Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, vol. 1, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 796.
​

No where is "Sin" implied or specified as something created by God.

What is more, your following statements:

In God being the First cause of sin into His World/ Creation, He by His Wisdom, deemed it essential for His Own Glory, and the accomplishment of His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:8-11

That God is the First and Primary cause of the evil in our hearts is perceived by the godly david, for his prayer here indicates that Ps 141:4

Neither say nor imply anything about God creating sin.

What is more, according to James, God cannot be the author of sin:

[12] Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. [13] Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. [14] But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. [15] Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. [16] Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. [17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. [18] Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:12-18 ESV)
​

This passage specifically and categorically nullifies your assertions that God is the first cause of sin. Not only can God not be tempted with evil, He Himself cannot tempt anyone with evil. This is a clear and fundamental statement of the free will of mankind--a will that is bound by sin at the Fall and a will that was "able to sin and able not to sin" before the fall.

Furthermore, if it is true that "every good and perfect gift is from above" where did evil come from? It certainly cannot be from God since evil itself is neither good nor perfect.

Moreover, Romans 5 clearly states that is was man, not God, that brought sin into the world:

[12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. [14] Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Romans 5:12-14 ESV)​

So, your assertions are simply not possible under any biblical circumstance. You are simply wrong, you've demonstrated that you have no regard for authorial intent, and you've demonstrated that you cannot or will not care to handle God's word rightly.

Your method of whatever-it-is-you-call-it-bible-study cannot and will not lead to anything but error--even as we've seen you demonstrate here.

After all, expository preaching is demonstrated fully and faithfully in this passage of Nehemiah:

[1] And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the Water Gate. And they told Ezra the scribe to bring the Book of the Law of Moses that the LORD had commanded Israel. [2] So Ezra the priest brought the Law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could understand what they heard, on the first day of the seventh month. [3] And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law. [4] And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden platform that they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand, and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah, and Meshullam on his left hand. [5] And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people, and as he opened it all the people stood. [6] And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God, and all the people answered, “Amen, Amen,” lifting up their hands. And they bowed their heads and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground. [7] Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodiah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, the Levites, helped the people to understand the Law, while the people remained in their places. [8] They read from the book, from the Law of God, clearly, and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading. (Nehemiah 8:1-8 ESV) ​

The word was read aloud and it was explained to the people. Ezra, Nehemiah and those with them were intent on saying: "Thus says the LORD" and they could only do that if they spoke His words and He intended them.

There is an objective meaning to the text--which is paramount to understanding the Scripture. You are tirelessly imposing a subjective meaning on the text. You're more thinking "What does this mean to me" when you should be asking "What has God said in this text?" It matters not what you think a text means; it matter greatly what God has said in a specific text. His meaning trumps yours any day.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

Adam was Created in and According to God's Eternal Purpose 2

Now that its an Established fact from scripture that Adam was Created in Christ, Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

For "For by him were all things created" can just as well read :

"For in him were all things created"

16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and ASV


16 For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him.AMP

Therefore His Redemptive Death reconcile all things to Himself Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The same all things that were Created in Him pointed out back up in Vs 16 !

So Adam's being Created in the Image and Likeness of God is due to His Union with Christ, for he is in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We know this applies to Adam simply because Adam, included in the all things of Col 1:16, was Created in Christ, so thats the connection to having been Created in the Image and Likeness of God, for Christ is that Image and Likeness 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Christ is the Image of God !

Again Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So actually, Christ's does purge the sins of those who were Created in the Image and Likeness of God in Adam, because Adam was Created in Him , who is the Very Image of God ! 188

 

[The Archangel]

Now that its an Established fact from scripture that Adam was Created in Christ, Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

For "For by him were all things created" can just as well read :

"For in him were all things created"

16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and ASV


16 For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him.AMP

Therefore His Redemptive Death reconcile all things to Himself Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The same all things that were Created in Him pointed out back up in Vs 16 !

So Adam's being Created in the Image and Likeness of God is due to His Union with Christ, for he is in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

We know this applies to Adam simply because Adam, included in the all things of Col 1:16, was Created in Christ, so thats the connection to having been Created in the Image and Likeness of God, for Christ is that Image and Likeness 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Christ is the Image of God !

Again Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So actually, Christ's does purge the sins of those who were Created in the Image and Likeness of God in Adam, because Adam was Created in Him , who is the Very Image of God ! 188

Wow.... Talk about jumping the shark....

In the OP, you stated:

In God being the First cause of sin into His World/ Creation, He by His Wisdom, deemed it essential for His Own Glory, and the accomplishment of His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:8-11

That God is the First and Primary cause of the evil in our hearts is perceived by the godly david, for his prayer here indicates that Ps 141:4

Nothing of what you've posted here either requires or suggests the conclusion from which you started.

A few more things... Christ is not an image-bearer. Adam bears the image of God--as do all individual humans. So, your argument fails because you don't talk about things in the biblical categories.

In Pauline talking, being chosen "In Christ" implies a union with Christ. Being created by Christ presupposes or suggests no such union.

Your ramblings are full of holes according to any true biblical theology and your understanding of the English text has been shown to be wrong because your understanding doesn't comport with the original Greek.

Again, you're simply never going to be right about this subject and you're not likely to be right about anything because you aren't handling the text according to the intent of the authors....

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

Wow.... Talk about jumping the shark....

In the OP, you stated:





Nothing of what you've posted here either requires or suggests the conclusion from which you started.

A few more things... Christ is not an image-bearer. Adam bears the image of God--as do all individual humans. So, your argument fails because you don't talk about things in the biblical categories.

In Pauline talking, being chosen "In Christ" implies a union with Christ. Being created by Christ presupposes or suggests no such union.

Your ramblings are full of holes according to any true biblical theology and your understanding of the English text has been shown to be wrong because your understanding doesn't comport with the original Greek.

Again, you're simply never going to be right about this subject and you're not likely to be right about anything because you aren't handling the text according to the intent of the authors....

The Archangel

Evasion and Rabbit Trail comments !

 

[savedbymercy]

Adam was Created in and According to God's Eternal Purpose 3

In Light of Adam being Created in Christ and in the Image of God, he and mankind in him, God's Elect Chosen in Christ before the foundation, have been predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ, as a confirmation of being Created in the Image of God in the beginning Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All those in Adam, in the Day God Created him Gen 1:27

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

That Image is only realized in the New Creation Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, The New Man is the fulfillment of having been initially Created in the Image of God in Gen 1:26-27 !

You see, being Created in the Image of God was never to be found in the natural man, that was only a subplot to the main Glory God had in store for Man, to be fulfilled through Redemption, and the Spirit's activity as well 2 Cor 3:18

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

This was not possible in the natural, in Adam !

 

[savedbymercy]

archangel

Christ is not an image-bearer.

Invalid comment ! For Christ is the Image of God !

2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Col 1:15

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Your comment shows that you are spiritually unlearned !

 

[The Archangel]

archangel



Invalid comment ! For Christ is the Image of God !

2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Col 1:15

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Your comment shows that you are spiritually unlearned !

You would be wise to distinguish between "Is the Image of God" and "Bears the Image of God."

I stated that Christ IS the image of God and, as such, He does not bear the image of God.

Only humans bear God's image.

I'm beginning to think you are only capable of seeing things you want to see in any written text, not just scripture. Apparently the author's intent means nothing to you at all levels.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

You would be wise to distinguish between "Is the Image of God" and "Bears the Image of God."

I stated that Christ IS the image of God and, as such, He does not bear the image of God.

Only humans bear God's image.

I'm beginning to think you are only capable of seeing things you want to see in any written text, not just scripture. Apparently the author's intent means nothing to you at all levels.

The Archangel

You need to distinguish, I don't, Christ is the Image of God is my point and Adam was made in the Image of God because he was in Christ ! Man finds his confirmation in the Image of God as he is conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29 which comes by Redemption !

 

[The Archangel]

You need to distinguish, I don't, Christ is the Image of God is my point and Adam was made in the Image of God because he was in Christ ! Man finds his confirmation in the Image of God as he is conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29 which comes by Redemption !

YOU need to distinguish because the Bible makes a distinction. You can ignore the text--as you've been demonstrating the propensity to do. You're making statements that are not only outside of Scripture, they're directly contradicted by Scripture.

Yes, Christ IS the Image of God. Adam is not. Adam is a created being and is created IN the image of God. Jesus, being the Image of God is fundamentally God. Adam being created in the image of God is fundamentally not God.

When the Old Testament references "Image" it is not simply some intrinsic quality. Rather, it is positional. When Genesis says that Man(kind) is created in the image of God it means that Man is the under-ruler of the realm. Another way of thinking of it is that Man is the Governor of the Great King--God. We, as image bearers, are His representatives which is why, by the way, murder, etc. are inherently wrong. To murder someone is to murder the representative of God Himself, and that is an act of war or rebellion against God (just as if the US Sec of State were captured and murdered by a foreign Gov't, it could be said that they have done this against the US and a state of war would exist...).

Jesus does not bear the image of God as Adam does. Jesus IS God, not a mere "representative."

Furthermore, you assertion that "Adam was made in the Image of God because he was in Christ" is patently false because Adam was made "By" Christ, not "in union with" Christ. The text is quite clear on this, yet you ignore it.

Then, you say, "Man finds his confirmation in the Image of God as he is conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29 which comes by Redemption !" The problem with this is that it is also patently wrong.

Man, in the Fall, does not lose his status as an image-bearer. Genesis 9:6 is very clear that Man is still an image-bearer, even after the Fall:

[6] “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image. (Genesis 9:6 ESV)​

Notice the "for" in the last stanza. The institution of the death penalty for murder is given precisely because Man--even fallen Man--is still an image-bearer.

So Adam--and all of us--are already in the image of God, and even non-Believers are image-bearers.

Those of us who are believers, who have been chosen, predestined, etc. are conformed to the image of Christ. But, the image of Christ is fundamentally different from the image of God.

The image of God (as discussed in Genesis and above) is more of a functional or positional reality. The image of Christ is an intrinsic quality. What Paul is saying in Romans (and, of course, other places) is that being conformed to the image of Christ means that we are becoming more like Him. In other words, we are being sanctified so that we more closely resemble Christ, not the fallen Adam.

Also, note the Adam-Christ dichotomy in 1 Corinthians 15:22. There is a distinction between the image of Adam and the image of Christ. So there is no support for the idea that man becomes an image bearer when he becomes a believer.

You're simply never going to get the Bible right if you keep making up things that are far outside of the text. You can't be right if you don't take the Bible at its word. And you can't take the Bible at its word if you hunt and peck verses, do violence to the context and the text itself, and ignore normal "rules" of reading.

I mean, seriously, do you look at a Speed Limit sign that says "55" and say to yourself "I think that means I can drive 70?" Do you look at the line on your mortgage contract that says you have to pay, for example, $1,000 a month and say to yourself, "That means I only have to pay $500?" If you don't do that with the speed limit and if you don't do that with your mortgage (or rent, etc.), which you can't do without deep penalty, you can't do that with Scripture--without deep penalty.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

To live through Him !

We know that Man in the beginning was Created for a Redemptive Purpose through Christ, which necessitated mans sin in the world, because, it was God's First and Primary design that man live through Christ unto His Glory 1 Jn 4:9

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Or other words so that we might live because of Him, or on account of Him, the word through being the prep dia meaning:

through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

The Life that God first designed according to His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ, was much more abundant than that first given in Adam Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

But yet ignorant and unlearned men believe that this Purpose of Abundant Life through Christ was God's backup plan to man first having life through Adam !

The fact is, the Living through Christ 1 Jn 4:9, the abundant life Jn 10:10 it was not possible through Adam even before the fall of man, no it was a Life given them in Christ before the world began.

Also it was God's Purpose that man live through Christ in response to Redemptive Love 1 Jn 4:9-10

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

And again this Life was not at all possible in Adam before the Fall into sin, and all True Christian service to God should be in response to Redemptive Love in Christ, as Paul writes as being true of himself, its true of all true believers 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

It was God's Purpose even for man in Adam to Live not unto themselves, but unto Him that died for them and rose again, that was never secondary in God's Purpose, to believe so is blasphemy ! 202

 

[savedbymercy]

archangel

Furthermore, you assertion that "Adam was made in the Image of God because he was in Christ" is patently false because Adam was made "By" Christ, not "in union with" Christ. The text is quite clear on this, yet you ignore it.

What scripture says its false ? Show me ! You are only making a assertion without biblical proof !

Adam [and man in him] were made in the Image of God, who is Jesus Christ, and it being made in God's Image, he was Male and Female Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats because ,he was made after the Image of Christ, who is God and the Head of His Church, the female Bride, pictured by Eve his Wife.

And so when Adam was Created his Bride was in Union with him, just not yet manifested, but she was in him, and so likewise, Adam was in Christ before the foundation of the World as represenative of the Church Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

To say that Adam was made by Christ and not in Union with Him, is blatently false. Yes he was made by Christ, but he was also in Union with Christ before the foundation

In Him says Eph 1:4 and that prep en denotes Union the word means:

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between

So again, you have made unfounded comments, not only not found in scripture, but in direct opposition to what scripture indicates !

You are here just to be a big show off, puffed up in pride !

 

[Salty]

For these things were set before and appointed the Son of God in the Eternal Counsels before the world began, so it should be quite obvious the world began in order to accomplish the Eternal Purpose in Christ, and hence sin was essential to that Purpose !

Here is a story of two brothers Tim and Jim.
Tim had a son who as a teen who got involved in alcohol, drugs, illicit sex, had 3 illegitimate children by 3 different women and served five years in prison for bank robbery. Shortly after arriving in prison he found the Lord and his life dramatically changed his life. While in prison, he felt led to be minister and took college classes to that end. Upon discharged he became a chaplain for a Rescue Mission and helped many who had been thru similar experiences.

Jim had a son who excelled in high school. The worse trouble he got into was a parking ticket for expired time at a meter (which was thrown out due to a malfunction meter). He then went to Bible college and became a pastor. He served in a medium size church, with his wife and 3 children.

Now which brother should be most proud of his son, Tim or Jim?

 

[savedbymercy]

Here is a story of two brothers Tim and Jim.
Tim had a son who as a teen who got involved in alcohol, drugs, illicit sex, had 3 illegitimate children by 3 different women and served five years in prison for bank robbery. Shortly after arriving in prison he found the Lord and his life dramatically changed his life. While in prison, he felt led to be minister and took college classes to that end. Upon discharged he became a chaplain for a Rescue Mission and helped many who had been thru similar experiences.

Jim had a son who excelled in high school. The worse trouble he got into was a parking ticket for expired time at a meter (which was thrown out due to a malfunction meter). He then went to Bible college and became a pastor. He served in a medium size church, with his wife and 3 children.

Now which brother should be most proud of his son, Tim or Jim?

Rabbit Trail comments away from the points I made with the scriptures ! Please explain back to me the point I made in the post you just quoted then evaded ! Thanks !

 

[PreachTony]

Rabbit Trail comments away from the points I made with the scriptures ! Please explain back to me the point I made in the post you just quoted then evaded ! Thanks !

Salty, if I've learned anything from discussions with savedbymercy, it's that she is allowed to conflate any point in any way she feels, but if you don't respond to her exact post, she will ignore you and accuse you of evading. It's okay for her to evade our questions, and she will not accept any other points of view. Go look at some of her other threads for further proof. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[OldRegular]

Salty, if I've learned anything from discussions with savedbymercy, it's that she is allowed to conflate any point in any way she feels, but if you don't respond to her exact post, she will ignore you and accuse you of evading. It's okay for her to evade our questions, and she will not accept any other points of view. Go look at some of her other threads for further proof. :smilewinkgrin:

One thing you can say about her/him is that she/he likes Rabbit Trails. In fact she/he started out running down a Rabbit Trail and she/he certainly was not following Scripture but her/his twitching nose. I do believe a rabbit's nose twitches continually does it not!

 

[Yeshua1]

archangel



What scripture says its false ? Show me ! You are only making a assertion without biblical proof !

Adam [and man in him] were made in the Image of God, who is Jesus Christ, and it being made in God's Image, he was Male and Female Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats because ,he was made after the Image of Christ, who is God and the Head of His Church, the female Bride, pictured by Eve his Wife.

And so when Adam was Created his Bride was in Union with him, just not yet manifested, but she was in him, and so likewise, Adam was in Christ before the foundation of the World as represenative of the Church Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

To say that Adam was made by Christ and not in Union with Him, is blatently false. Yes he was made by Christ, but he was also in Union with Christ before the foundation

In Him says Eph 1:4 and that prep en denotes Union the word means:

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between

So again, you have made unfounded comments, not only not found in scripture, but in direct opposition to what scripture indicates !

You are here just to be a big show off, puffed up in pride !

Adam and eve became lost sinners, and when did they get saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

It was God's purpose in Christ that Adam sinned !

Its absolutely amazing how any True Born Again Believer with a knowledge of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, will not believe that it was God's will of purpose that Adam should sin in the garden when and how he did, according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Such unbelief manifests an ignorance to the purpose for which this world/earth was Created, an Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: See Jn 1:3 in this connection !

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In fact, the very name of Jesus denotes Salvation its greek word Iésous:

Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").

Understand something, when the world / earth was Created, even before Adam existed upon it, God had already appointed Christ as the Redeemer by His Blood, this we know for sure by 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Yes, for God's foreknown and Elect People 1 Pet 1:1-2 to be redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb, it was established before the foundation of the world, so it would be idiotic of God to Create Adam and Desire that he would not sin !

Also Rev 13:8 testifies to Christ in the Eternal Purpose of God being slain for the Redemptive Purpose before the foundation !

Now with that in mind, why would so called believers reason that after God created Adam, it would have been God's first preference/choice that Adam would not Transgress, that God would have rather Adam not sin; Now would Adam not sinning brought God more Honor and Glory than Christ does because of mans sin ?203

 

[savedbymercy]

Adam and eve became lost sinners, and when did they get saved?

Uh, are you going to just quote my post then evade it without addressing the points made ? Yes or No ?

 

[The Archangel]

archangel

What scripture says its false ? Show me ! You are only making a assertion without biblical proof !

Adam [and man in him] were made in the Image of God, who is Jesus Christ, and it being made in God's Image, he was Male and Female Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats because ,he was made after the Image of Christ, who is God and the Head of His Church, the female Bride, pictured by Eve his Wife.

Nothing here--or anywhere in scripture--says equates the image of God with the image of Christ the way you are doing.

Logically, if you have Adam in union with Christ then when Adam fell, you'd have to say Christ fell. Which, considering you charge God with being the cause of Sin, isn't likely to be too far of a stretch for you.

I have demonstrated that Adam was made in the image of God, that the image of God is more functional, and that every individual is an image bearer--even unbelievers. You've simply ignored the text of scripture.

And so when Adam was Created his Bride was in Union with him, just not yet manifested, but she was in him, and so likewise, Adam was in Christ before the foundation of the World as represenative of the Church Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

To say that Adam was made by Christ and not in Union with Him, is blatently false. Yes he was made by Christ, but he was also in Union with Christ before the foundation

In Him says Eph 1:4 and that prep en denotes Union the word means:

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between

So again, you have made unfounded comments, not only not found in scripture, but in direct opposition to what scripture indicates !

Context, context, context! While, somewhat miraculously, you get the preposition of Ephesians 1:4 correct, the "us" of Ephesians 1:4 is not addressed to all humans. Paul is writing to the church (believers) at Ephesus and he is saying that believers have been "chosen in [Christ] before the foundation of the world." He is by no means saying everyone has been chosen in Christ.

Nothing in Ephesians 1:4 references Adam and nothing says Adam was in union with Christ. You are simply reading into the text.

You are here just to be a big show off, puffed up in pride !

You know... I ignored the first such comment. But, pointing out that you are deficient in handling the Bible is not a matter of pride for me or anyone else.

It is your practice to charge God with wrong, evade all scriptural evidence to the contrary, and accuse people of being sinful when they point out your deep errors.

It isn't "pride" that I've been trained to study the Bible, that I know the languages, and that I've been trained to read the Bible as the authors have written the text. If you think that to be "pride," then theology isn't the only thing in which you have no acumen.

The Archangel

 

[savedbymercy]

archangel

Nothing here--or anywhere in scripture--says equates the image of God with the image of Christ the way you are doing.

Oh yes it does, you just cant see it ,but the indication is there !