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Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !

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savedbymercy

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archangel

Paul is writing to the church (believers) at Ephesus and he is saying that believers have been "chosen in [Christ] before the foundation of the world."

I know who Paul is writing to !

He is by no means saying everyone has been chosen in Christ.

Please show me where I stated that ! Give us the quote out of any post I have posted ! If not, admit you have just misrepresented what I did post !
 

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
But yet ignorant and unlearned men believe that this Purpose of Abundant Life through Christ was God's backup plan to man first having life through Adam !

I don't believe God has "back-up plans." But, it is possible for God to "ordain" (as in stand aside and let happen) Adam's sin rather than cause Adam's sin.

You are starting with a philosophical assumption and doing great violence to the text of scripture to try and prove your point. Scripture will never be your toady.

The fact is, the Living through Christ 1 Jn 4:9, the abundant life Jn 10:10 it was not possible through Adam even before the fall of man, no it was a Life given them in Christ before the world began.

And again this Life was not at all possible in Adam before the Fall into sin, and all True Christian service to God should be in response to Redemptive Love in Christ, as Paul writes as being true of himself, its true of all true believers 2 Cor 5:14-15

You have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

Adam was in a state of purity and he was able to be in the very presence of God--until the Fall. Since Christ comes to restore our relationship with God by living the perfect life we can't live, dying the death for our sins that we deserve to die, and being raised to newness of life, it is obvious something was lost at the Fall. You're ignoring simple biblical theology.

The text of scripture will never serve your purposes or your wrong (and perhaps blasphemous) assertions.

It was God's Purpose even for man in Adam to Live not unto themselves, but unto Him that died for them and rose again, that was never secondary in God's Purpose, to believe so is blasphemy ! 202

I'm beginning to think you are a universalist.

In Adam (which all humanity is) we are dead sinners "living unto ourselves" since the Fall. In Christ (which is NOT all of humanity), however, we are alive, pardoned rebels living to and for God.

What you're arguing for and how you're arguing will, at some point, necessitate saying that all humanity is in union with Christ because Adam was made in union with Christ. So, if you are to be consistent with you own ____ology (because what you're describing here certainly isn't any type of theology) you will have to say that all humanity is in union with Christ because Adam was created in union with Christs and, as such, all are saved. Of course, this is absolutely untenable by any reading of the Bible.

The Archangel
 

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
archangel
Oh yes it does, you just cant see it ,but the indication is there !

Now I'm thinking your also into some type of gnosticism.

There is no such "indication."

archangel
I know who Paul is writing to !

You've never proven that with your comments.


Please show me where I stated that ! Give us the quote out of any post I have posted ! If not, admit you have just misrepresented what I did post !

I'm not misrepresenting you:
...The World was Created In Christ, meaning Adam and the World in his Loins...
You clearly stated (and, again, wrongly so) that Adam and the world in his loins were made in Christ which you have said is "in union with Christ."

So, you are, in fact, arguing that everyone has been chosen in Christ just as Adam was. Perhaps you can't see what you've been arguing...but it's there.

The Archangel
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mighty funny you don't have the quote, so it's still misrepresenting, a form of bearing false witness , something God hates !

In your understanding, did God force/cause both satan and Adam to sin against Him, for the greater good that would come out from that?
 

savedbymercy

New Member
archangel

I don't believe God has "back-up plans."

Yes you do, if you believe that Adam could have Lived through Christ as stated in 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Before Adam sinned he had no knowledge of Christ the Son of God in His Redemptive Charcter as the Seed of the Women Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If Adam would not have sinned, that Knowledge was witheld and he would not have understood his need of the Redeemer ! But God had already foreordained that Christ would be his redeemer before He created Adam 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now wise guy, where was Adam before the foundation of the World ? Tell us oh wise one ? Show us the context and what the greek says about that !
 
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PreachTony

Active Member
savedbymercy - Why must everyone answer you point by point? Why can't you answer our questions? We're willing to discuss things with you, but you keep moving the goalposts and requesting we go line by line with you, but you won't even answer our simple one-line questions.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
archangel



Yes you do, if you believe that Adam could have Lived through Christ as stated in 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Before Adam sinned he had no knowledge of Christ the Son of God in His Redemptive Charcter as the Seed of the Women Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If Adam would not have sinned, that Knowledge was witheld and he would not have understood his need of the Redeemer ! But God had already foreordained that Christ would be his redeemer before He created Adam 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now wise guy, where was Adam before the foundation of the World ?
Adam wasn't created before the foundation of the world.

Christ was foreordained. Because Christ was foreordained, He was NOT a "back-up plan."
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
archangel
Yes you do, if you believe that Adam could have Lived through Christ as stated in 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Before Adam sinned he had no knowledge of Christ the Son of God in His Redemptive Charcter as the Seed of the Women Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If Adam would not have sinned, that Knowledge was witheld and he would not have understood his need of the Redeemer ! But God had already foreordained that Christ would be his redeemer before He created Adam 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now wise guy, where was Adam before the foundation of the World ? Tell us oh wise one ? Show us the context and what the greek says about that !

Your posts are almost incoherent. learn something before you continue to embarass yourself here. The only response you should have made was....thank you AA for taking the time to correct me:thumbsup::wavey: Your denial of instruction is almost as bad as DHK.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Its absolutely amazing how any True Born Again Believer with a knowledge of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, will not believe that it was God's will of purpose that Adam should sin in the garden when and how he did, according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Such unbelief manifests an ignorance to the purpose for which this world/earth was Created, an Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ Eph 3:9-11

I can't understand why this thread has not been closed after the first 2 posts but has been allowed continue with sbm continually posting blasphemy!
 
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