Since David Cloud's name is being brought in, what are his qualifications/education?

[annsni]

I figure this is the area this goes on the board since David Cloud is held up as an expert on the KJV and other versions and their validity or not. So, what is his education? What sort of qualifications does he have to be an authority on this subject? I tried to find online but couldn't find anything at all.

Thanks!

 

[brucebaptist]

what qualifications did the apostle Peter have? catching fish?

i can see where this is going? 'lets smear Bro Cloud thread...' because he is an advocate for the KJV.

i am sure he will appreciate you blessing him by trying to smear him...

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Bro Cloud's qualifications are that he has the Holy Spirit to lead him and guide him into truth and is called by God to spread the truth of the Gospel of Jesus into the world... and he's doing a fine job.

show me from the Bible where any man of God needs qualifications other than these?

 

[annsni]

We are talking about textual criticism and he is put forth as an "expert". Surely an "expert" would have SOME sort of training and that is all I'm asking. I certainly wouldn't go to a doctor who did his own study. I certainly won't take the word of a "pastor" who has not at least stood under solid Biblical training and education.

 

[brucebaptist]

We are talking about textual criticism and he is put forth as an "expert". Surely an "expert" would have SOME sort of training and that is all I'm asking. I certainly wouldn't go to a doctor who did his own study. I certainly won't take the word of a "pastor" who has not at least stood under solid Biblical training and education.

textual criticism was nowhere in your original post. only the criticism and smearing of a brother in Christ...

its disgusting when a professing Christian wants to smear somebody who has dedicated their entire lives to helping people find Jesus Christ, just because they stand for the KJ...

if you want your dr. to have 30 years of schooling, great. Bro Cloud has the Holy Spirit and there is no amount of 'schooling' that can compare to the Holy Spirit filled pastor... to even suggest that is blasphemy.

again, show me from the Bible where any man of God needs qualifications other than the HS and a calling?

[Open note to brucebaptist. I would highly suggest that you read the 'tone' of your own response. I do not believe the Bible (any translation) condones the mood of response I am getting from your posts. You have accussed a brother or sister in Christ of many non-Biblical items including 'blasphemy'.

You are right in that the Holy Spirit is the ONLY source we need; however, throughout my life, experience has shown me that a person who has been formally educated especially in areas so complex as textual criticism is going to be a risky teacher of that subject. The poster simply would like to know if David Cloud does have any formal education and if so where did that education originate (since the school itself will have a great bearing on belief). I do not believe there is anything wrong with asking these questions, but I do believe it is wrong to make the assumptions that the ONLY reason the poster is asking is to destroy that person's reputation if they do not agree with your beliefs.

Please read your response again and I ask you to humbly "lighten up" somewhat and don't start with your accusations. If I were a witness in court, the first thing I would be asked besides identifications would be my background on the subject-matter, especially if I were held up to be an "expert" in a particular subject and textual c. does not fall outside of that type of subject.

So, please, watch your responses---that they do not become attacks and leave it up to the administrators to claim someone is using blasphemy.

Hopefully, if you read this with an open mind this will be my last message or edit. It also makes you look better when you are more open to finding the answers of someone you disagree with rather than making blatant attacks based on what appears to be emotion.

I hope this helps you and all of the other posters regarding this subject which is interesting but always winds up becoming an issue based almost entirely on emotion. If you wish to convert a non-kjvo to a kjvo, I think they are a lot more likely to listen if you provide them with David Cloud's background rather than rant that they have no right to simply ask.

Thank you very much!
Phillip
]

 

[TCassidy]

All of us have the Holy Spirit leading us so that argument is a wash. David Cloud attended Tennessee Temple Bible School back in the 70's. He lacks any formal graduate or seminary training. He is a very studious man and his self-study of many issues have made him an expert in those fields. However, textual criticism is not one of them.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

My mamma once told me that if I can't say anything nice about some one I shouldn't say anything at all. So....

 

[annsni]

textual criticism was nowhere in your original post. only the criticism and smearing of a brother in Christ...

Wow! You're good! You know my motivation? Well, actually, you are wrong. I see David Cloud as being promoted as being an expert and I would like to find out just how he became an expert. I'd expect at least SOME sort of training in translation mechanics, Greek, Hebrew and the like. So I guess my guess is correct - he has none. Of course all the googling I could do showed up nothing either. Interesting.

its disgusting when a professing Christian wants to smear somebody who has dedicated their entire lives to helping people find Jesus Christ, just because they stand for the KJ...

No - I'm looking to find out if a man who is placing himself in the position of "expert" is actually that. I don't know the man at all and I have no desire to say anything about him. If he's an expert, I'd like to see his credentials. That's it.

if you want your dr. to have 30 years of schooling, great. Bro Cloud has the Holy Spirit and there is no amount of 'schooling' that can compare to the Holy Spirit filled pastor... to even suggest that is blasphemy.

Blasphemy? Nice. No - I'm asking if he's such an expert in translation issues, he CERTAINLY can read the manuscripts we have and know what they say since he's studied in Greek and Hebrew, has studied Biblical history, textual criticism and the like. As for my doctor? Solid training and education suffices. I certainly wouldn't count on someone who says that they have studied on their own and know all there is. Would you?

again, show me from the Bible where any man of God needs qualifications other than the HS and a calling?

1 Timothy 3:

It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

 

[robycop3]

My, MY, you're TOUCHY, Brucebaptist! All I see is Annsi's asking a very valid question! If you hadta have a brain tumor removed, ot open-heart surgery, wouldn't you wanna know the surgeon's training, qualifications, & track record? If you're having your home rewired, wouldn't ya wanna know something about the contractor's qualifications? Would ya hire a plumber to do the electrical work?

All Christians are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT. However, He manifests Himself in different manners & different degrees in different believers. We don't know how and to what extent He mighta manifested Himself in Cloud.

Cloud has certainly done excellent work in exposing Gail Riplinger as a charlatan, but that has also been done by others. However, he was among the first to publicly point out her faulty "scholarship", deliberate misquotes of other authors, & other goofs in her worx. But does that make him an expert in KJVO?

I believe the HOLY SPIRIT wants the Christian to WORK at the particular task He has given him, using the particular abilities He has given each Christian. That includes STUDY of the Bible, and of secular worx as well. That's what Annsi was inquiring about, I believe, the human qualifications of Cloud, schools he'd attended, etc. to have become an expert in Bible versions, KJVO, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Annsi!)

'Tis certainly no reason to get your sox in a wad for her wanting to know these things. (Remember Riplinger's qualifications-a degree in INTERIOR DESIGN!)

 

[brucebaptist]

Wow! You're good! You know my motivation? Well, actually, you are wrong. I see David Cloud as being promoted as being an expert and I would like to find out just how he became an expert. I'd expect at least SOME sort of training in translation mechanics, Greek, Hebrew and the like. So I guess my guess is correct - he has none. Of course all the googling I could do showed up nothing either. Interesting.

No - I'm looking to find out if a man who is placing himself in the position of "expert" is actually that. I don't know the man at all and I have no desire to say anything about him. If he's an expert, I'd like to see his credentials. That's it.

Blasphemy? Nice. No - I'm asking if he's such an expert in translation issues, he CERTAINLY can read the manuscripts we have and know what they say since he's studied in Greek and Hebrew, has studied Biblical history, textual criticism and the like. As for my doctor? Solid training and education suffices. I certainly wouldn't count on someone who says that they have studied on their own and know all there is. Would you?

1 Timothy 3:

It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

the only 'training' any man needs to do the Lord's work is the training that comes from God and the HS...

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

if you really wanted to research his 'credentials' you would have researched them. you dont 'research' a mans education by starting a smear campaign which is where this thread was going from the start.

if you want to smear a brethren, thats up to you. it just baffles me that someone would want to smear a true Christian that has poured his life into the Gospel and has done so 'in the truth'.... when there are so many Henns, Osteens, Schulers, Warrens and popes out there that are sending folks to hell with their false gospels...

 

[Askjo]

We are talking about textual criticism and he is put forth as an "expert". Surely an "expert" would have SOME sort of training and that is all I'm asking. I certainly wouldn't go to a doctor who did his own study. I certainly won't take the word of a "pastor" who has not at least stood under solid Biblical training and education.

Who needs the textual criticism? You?

 

[Askjo]

what qualifications did the apostle Peter have? catching fish?

i can see where this is going? 'lets smear Bro Cloud thread...' because he is an advocate for the KJV.

i am sure he will appreciate you blessing him by trying to smear him...

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Bro Cloud's qualifications are that he has the Holy Spirit to lead him and guide him into truth and is called by God to spread the truth of the Gospel of Jesus into the world... and he's doing a fine job.

show me from the Bible where any man of God needs qualifications other than these?

Well said !!

 

[annsni]

My, MY, you're TOUCHY, Brucebaptist! All I see is Annsi's asking a very valid question! If you hadta have a brain tumor removed, ot open-heart surgery, wouldn't you wanna know the surgeon's training, qualifications, & track record? If you're having your home rewired, wouldn't ya wanna know something about the contractor's qualifications? Would ya hire a plumber to do the electrical work?

All Christians are indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT. However, He manifests Himself in different manners & different degrees in different believers. We don't know how and to what extent He mighta manifested Himself in Cloud.

Cloud has certainly done excellent work in exposing Gail Riplinger as a charlatan, but that has also been done by others. However, he was among the first to publicly point out her faulty "scholarship", deliberate misquotes of other authors, & other goofs in her worx. But does that make him an expert in KJVO?

I believe the HOLY SPIRIT wants the Christian to WORK at the particular task He has given him, using the particular abilities He has given each Christian. That includes STUDY of the Bible, and of secular worx as well. That's what Annsi was inquiring about, I believe, the human qualifications of Cloud, schools he'd attended, etc. to have become an expert in Bible versions, KJVO, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Annsi!)

'Tis certainly no reason to get your sox in a wad for her wanting to know these things. (Remember Riplinger's qualifications-a degree in INTERIOR DESIGN!)

Nope - You got it! I was curious the other night when his name was tossed around and since textual criticism is a pretty intense field, I was wondering where he studied. I couldn't find ANY sort of background on him other than his testimony. Nothing about how he became a pastor, who he discipled with, where he might have learned his Greek and Hebrew or if he even knows it! Just asking.

 

[annsni]

the only 'training' any man needs to do the Lord's work is the training that comes from God and the HS...

That's great but unless the Holy Spirit decides to not only give Mr. Cloud the gift of tongues but the ability to interpret as well, he does not have the ability to read the manuscripts to see where they may differ. He also is not skilled on what a word would mean in the context of the writer. Yes, I believe the training from God and the Holy Spirit is vital but so is earthly training as well. I'd hope any pastor I'm under has at least sat under the discipleship and training of other qualified leaders. My own husband did that and even though he's ordained and about to plant a church in just over a month, he continues to study, learn and be discipled to be a man after God's own heart.

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

if you really wanted to research his 'credentials' you would have researched them. you dont 'research' a mans education by starting a smear campaign which is where this thread was going from the start.

Show me where I started a smear campaign. Please do show me since I do not see it here. I asked for his qualifications and education which you STILL have not been able to produce nor has about an hour's worth of my time online.

if you want to smear a brethren, thats up to you. it just baffles me that someone would want to smear a true Christian that has poured his life into the Gospel and has done so 'in the truth'.... when there are so many Henns, Osteens, Schulers, Warrens and popes out there that are sending folks to hell with their false gospels...

You are accusing me of doing something that I did not do. You know what "false witness" is? Yea - look it up.

 

[Askjo]

I figure this is the area this goes on the board since David Cloud is held up as an expert on the KJV and other versions and their validity or not. So, what is his education? What sort of qualifications does he have to be an authority on this subject? I tried to find online but couldn't find anything at all.

Thanks!

The qualification of the expert does not require the degree from college/seminaries. The qualification of the scholar requires the degree from them. David Cloud is an expert on his own research work concerning the issues what he looked for.

 

[annsni]

Who needs the textual criticism? You?

Well, since Mr. Cloud is engaged in such, he should have SOME sort of training in it. I'm asking what his training is.

Interestingly enough, there are two here who are coming to Mr. Cloud's defense - who cannot simply answer the question. Instead they attack my motives. Hmm - is that the sigh of a losing side?

 

[TCassidy]

Who needs the textual criticism? You?

You do. I do. We all do. Without it we would not have an English Bible!

 

[Askjo]

textual criticism was nowhere in your original post. only the criticism and smearing of a brother in Christ...

its disgusting when a professing Christian wants to smear somebody who has dedicated their entire lives to helping people find Jesus Christ, just because they stand for the KJ...

if you want your dr. to have 30 years of schooling, great. Bro Cloud has the Holy Spirit and there is no amount of 'schooling' that can compare to the Holy Spirit filled pastor... to even suggest that is blasphemy.

again, show me from the Bible where any man of God needs qualifications other than the HS and a calling?

Acts 4:13 KJV
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

 

[annsni]

The qualification of the expert does not require the degree from college/seminaries. The qualification of the scholar requires the degree from them. David Cloud is an expert on his own research work concerning the issues what he looked for.

But there's no evidence of where he studied, what he studied or anything. Isn't that quite unusual for an "expert"?

Ahh - but there's the rub. You stated "David Cloud is an expert on his own research work concerning the issues what he looked for". I'm guessing you mean to say that he's an expert on his own research work concerning the issues he was looking for. But that's the thing. Did he go in with a preconceived notion and found support for what he said or did he go in honestly seeking God's truth and without the outside influences of the KJVO crowd, came to this conclusion? I don't even see a testimony on HOW he became KJVO. That's quite strange for an 'expert'.

 

[annsni]

Acts 4:13 KJV
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

So? They were "ignorant and unlearned" by the world's standards but they walked with Jesus. Is Jesus sitting down at the table and showing David Cloud this doctrine out of the Scriptures? I don't think so.

 

[brucebaptist]

you know this thread was started to smear Cloud. you know it and i know it... and you do so at your own risk of bashing someone who has poured out their guts for Christ. thats on your soul, not mine.

if you want to know his credentials contact his ministry directly and i am sure they will give you his info.

but dont start a campaign to bash a true man of God just because he is KJO and has proven why he believes KJO over and over.