Since David Cloud's name is being brought in, what are his qualifications/education?

[TCassidy]

Mr. Cloud is undoubtedly knowledgeable. However, he does his position a disservice by not getting creditialed. It would be analogous to a person that attends a church for many years but never became a member (they should not expect to have the same rights) or some one being 'committed' to another person but never getting married (it is not to be recognized).

He is credentialed. He has a diploma from TT and is ordained. He lacks graduate and post graduate degrees, but how many IFBs also lack graduate and post graduate degrees? An IFB pastor with a graduate degree is a rarity, in my experience. A seminary education is not usually sought after, and most often, is disparaged.

 

[just-want-peace]

Actually I answered the OPs question in post #5 on the first page of the thread.

So you did!!

My apologies for the goof!

My only excuse is that the mud-slinging so distracted me that it simply did not register!:BangHead:

 

[DHK]

Mr. Cloud is undoubtedly knowledgeable. However, he does his position a disservice by not getting creditialed. It would be analogous to a person that attends a church for many years but never became a member (they should not expect to have the same rights) or some one being 'committed' to another person but never getting married (it is not to be recognized).

I don't know how old he is, but if I assume he is my age or older and strongly IFB, there were not too many IFB institutions offering seminary degrees past M.A. at that time. Accreditation of any kind was looked down upon as worse than the degree itself--government interference. The SBC was looked upon as compromising institution. Why would one even think of going there? I am just giving you the mindset of that time. He is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. For that reason alone he would not go to an SBC seminary. They don't have the right philosophy. Accreditation doesn't mean much in his circles.

 

[Zenas]

I don't know how old he is, but if I assume he is my age or older and strongly IFB, there were not too many IFB institutions offering seminary degrees past M.A. at that time. Accreditation of any kind was looked down upon as worse than the degree itself--government interference. The SBC was looked upon as compromising institution. Why would one even think of going there? I am just giving you the mindset of that time. He is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. For that reason alone he would not go to an SBC seminary. They don't have the right philosophy. Accreditation doesn't mean much in his circles.

And therein lies a huge problem with fundamentalism. Their teachers may be ever so smart and well educated but they will not have much credibility outside their circle of fundamentalists. They can't get the attention of others because they are not credentialed. I realize there are a lot of credentialed fools out there but having a degree from an accredited seminary means that at the very least you have taken certain classes and have knowledge in certain disciplines.

In most places you can't be a doctor or lawyer unless you have graduated from an accredited medical school or law school and passed an examination. We still have bad doctors and lawyers but the process eliminates a lot of would practitioners who are incompetent. We have freedom of religion, so of course I wouldn't advocate laws that require a degree from an accredited seminary before going into the ministry or before starting yet another unaccredited bible college. There is, however, some merit to using this concept in practice. Our church, a very old SBC church, requires that the pastor have at least one post baccalaureate degree from an accredited seminary. This requirement has served us well over the years.

As for not wanting governmental interference, I don't know of any government sponsored accrediting agencies. They are all independent, operating under their own self imposed standards.

Fundamentalist evangelists have a hard sell at the outset because they expect their converts to lead a life apart from the world. Not a bad idea but still a hard sell. Why shoot yourself in the foot by using people on the front line whose knowledge and credibility is suspect? I must say fundamentalists have come a long way with Liberty University and a few other lesser known fully accredited schools, but they still have a long way to go.

 

[DHK]

In short reply:
For years, even decades, BJU refused to be accredited. Yet their graduates were the cream of the crop and are wanted by Bible Colleges all over this continent. Even in other disciplines they have very good reputations.

 

[Mexdeaf]

In short reply:
For years, even decades, BJU refused to be accredited. Yet their graduates were the cream of the crop and are wanted by Bible Colleges all over this continent. Even in other disciplines they have very good reputations.

There's an exception in every case- BJU is an exception. MOST unaccredited IFB colleges lack credibility and the degrees they offer are of little value.

 

[DHK]

There's an exception in every case- BJU is an exception. MOST unaccredited IFB colleges lack credibility and the degrees they offer are of little value.

However I was speaking of the era when David Cloud went to college.
Maranatha was not accredited. Pilsbury was not accredited (though no longer in existence now, used to be a good college), NBBC did not accept accreditation at first, etc. Most IFB colleges of 20 years ago or more were not accredited.

 

[Mexdeaf]

However I was speaking of the era when David Cloud went to college.
Maranatha was not accredited. Pilsbury was not accredited (though no longer in existence now, used to be a good college), NBBC did not accept accreditation at first, etc. Most IFB colleges of 20 years ago or more were not accredited.

Understood.

However, it may be interesting to note that many of the teachers at TTU during his era (and mine, BTW) were people with legitimate terminal degrees from accredited institutions- some from (gasp!) secular and (double gasp!) Southern Baptist colleges. I know this for a fact because some of my teachers earned Doctorates and Master's degrees from such institutions while they were my teachers at TTU.

 

[DHK]

Understood.

However, it may be interesting to note that many of the teachers at TTU during his era (and mine, BTW) were people with legitimate terminal degrees from accredited institutions- some from (gasp!) secular and (double gasp!) Southern Baptist colleges. I know this for a fact because some of my teachers earned Doctorates and Master's degrees from such institutions while they were my teachers at TTU.

Most of the teachers at the college I went to were from BJU.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Understood.

However, it may be interesting to note that many of the teachers at TTU during his era (and mine, BTW) were people with legitimate terminal degrees from accredited institutions- some from (gasp!) secular and (double gasp!) Southern Baptist colleges. I know this for a fact because some of my teachers earned Doctorates and Master's degrees from such institutions while they were my teachers at TTU.

I can vouch for this statement

 

[wfdfiremedic]

In my opinion, it is vital that one hold a higher degree in textual criticism. I will keep harping on this issue, but other "christian" religions do not have such education with their members. They produce bibles that lack sound education in interpretation. Just as I would not want someone to operate on me without explicit education, I do not one interpreting scripture without the same education. Everyone makes the argument the apostles were not educated. Fine, they had Jesus right there beside them to provide information. I don't think we can apply such logic in today's times.

Also, my IFB pastor holds a Master's etc. Not all are uneducated.

Regards.

 

[wfdfiremedic]

One more thought. I listen to MacArthur a lot due to his expository style. I trust what he says is true. In the same fashion, I am a firefighter and would assume MacArthur would trust the fire department to put his house fire out if needed. We rely on others based upon their education and training.

-Chris