Since you have been a Baptist, have you . . .

[standingfirminChrist]

Craig, how about posting some links to where one can find info on this supposed patient and her supposed nightmare? I cannot find any articles on the internet doing a search for 'nightmare about Pope John', nor 'Pope John nightmare'

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Maybe Diggin's last post was not debate, but final stand.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Once he says he's done, it goes from being a debate to a final stand only because he said it was done, but decided to post a contrary point of view 4 hours later? So he was done with the "debate", but not the debate. Like I said, I am not presuming that he is a liar, I assume the opposite, but am giving an example of context.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have at one point gave all my belongings up to follow Christ. Back in 88. I owned nothing but the clothes on my back and the shoes on my feet. It was not until 94 that God began allowing me to acquire personal belongings again. God has blessed me over the last 9 1/4 years and allowed me to have a computer. My wife will tell you, that is about all that I do own besides my Bible. Oh yes, and 6 pair of jeans 4 of which are too small and 2 which are too big. 6 shirts and 2 pair of shoes.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Please see this thread

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/6155.html

to explain the difference so this thread stays on topic.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Maybe Diggin's last post was not debate, but final stand.

I see what is being said, and what Diggin has posted makes more sense than the many posts from those arguing with Him.

Jesus never stated Go bury your father, but did indeed say Follow me. Let the dead bury their dead.

I can see where it would make sense for the one who chose to live a sinful lifestyle to be buried by his sinful crowd.

Sure, witness and comfort the family. Christ would want that. But don't go in their pagan places of worship.

I have the same convictions not to go in a pagan church. If I disobey the Holy Spirit and go in there, I will have to answer. To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Why are you insisting upon spiritualizing the Bible like the Mormons do instead of believing what it literally says?

Matt. 8:21. And another of the disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22. But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

Luke 9:59. And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
60. But he said unto him, Leave the dead to bury their own dead; but go thou and publish abroad the kingdom of God.

In both of these passages of Scripture Jesus is telling one individual Jewish disciple that was wavering in his commitment, “Leave the dead to bury their own dead; but go thou and publish abroad the kingdom of God.” No where, absolutely nowhere in the Bible did Jesus tell C4K to “Leave the dead to bury their own dead.” Jesus was not even speaking to Christian, but to an unsaved Jew! And even if perhaps you are an unsaved Jew, Jesus did not tell you to “Leave the dead to bury their own dead.” He told only one man to do that, and that man was not you, C4K, or anyone else posting in this thread.

That is what the verse literally says. You can spiritualize it like a Mormon or twist if like a J.W., but the Bible says what the Bible says—no more and no less!

John 13:34. A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

(All Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Good post Craig. I don't agree with much of what you say, but you have done a good job of pointing out a Fundamentalist flaw that I was not even aware of this time.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Goodnight Craig.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by C4K:
Good post Craig. I don't agree with much of what you say, but you have done a good job of pointing out a Fundamentalist flaw that I was not even aware of this time.

I did not mean to start this mess; I only meant to learn more about the experiences of my friends on the Baptist Board. Perhaps, however, the Holy Spirit has used this thread to turn on a light in the minds of some of my friends—and in my mind as well!

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Goodnight Craig.

Thank you! And Goodnight!

Goodnight all!

 

[4His_glory]

Originally posted by C4K:
Good post Craig. I don't agree with much of what you say, but you have done a good job of pointing out a Fundamentalist flaw that I was not even aware of this time.

I imagine that is a blessing from beign over seas and planting a church; you don't have to hear all the ridiculous stuff that goes on sometimes.

And some older fundamentalists wonder why we younger ones say that somethings have to change- like this kind of thinking. As for me, I will go right on being a heretic, because what others think about me is not going to affect my relationship before God at all. So when my Catholic grandma dies, you can be sure I will, Lord willing, be at the funeral. Case closed for me.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by 4His_glory:
And some older fundamentalists wonder why we younger ones say that somethings have to change- like this kind of thinking. As for me, I will go right on being a heretic, because what others think about me is not going to affect my relationship before God at all. So when my Catholic grandma dies, you can be sure I will, Lord willing, be at the funeral. Case closed for me.

Great post, amen!

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Maybe Diggin's last post was not debate, but final stand.

I see what is being said, and what Diggin has posted makes more sense than the many posts from those arguing with Him.

Jesus never stated Go bury your father, but did indeed say Follow me. Let the dead bury their dead.

I can see where it would make sense for the one who chose to live a sinful lifestyle to be buried by his sinful crowd.

Sure, witness and comfort the family. Christ would want that. But don't go in their pagan places of worship.

I have the same convictions not to go in a pagan church. If I disobey the Holy Spirit and go in there, I will have to answer. To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I didn't want to mention this before, but I once heard that that phrase had to do with waiting until their father died before moving on. The father could have been somewhat young and healthy with manyyears ahead of him.

Has anyone else here ever heard that interpretation before?

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JackRUS:
Craig asked me:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Now it is my turn to ask you a question? Did you personally verify the accuracy of the quotes that you posted, or did you post them without first verifying their accuracy by looking them up in the original documents?

The Glories of Mary is a very well know work, and Catholic scholars that I have debated verified the quotes. I gave page numbers and book references to all of the quotes that I posted from other works as well.

As for true Catholic dogma, one need only go to The Council of Trent to see what they really believe on Justification. Why Craig to you think that this council was called in the first place? To lend credibility to Luther and his views on justification?

Here is a sampling from this heretical work:

"If anyone denies that by baptism the guilt of original sin is remitted (or) denies that justice, santification and redemption of Jesus Christ is applied both to adults and to infants by the sacrament of baptism...let him be anathema.

If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law (i.e. the seven sacramenst of the RCC) are not necessary for salvation...and that without them...men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification (see what I mean Tim)..let him be anathema.

If anyone says that baptism...is not necessary for salvation, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that after the reception of grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotteed out...and that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

If anyone says that the sacifice of the mass...wherein that life-giving victim by which we are reconciled to the Father is daily immolated on the altar by priests...is a mere commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross but not a propitiatory one...offered for the living and the dead, for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities, let him be anathema."

In 1962, at the opening of Vatican II in Rome, Pope John XXIII affirmed, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent." Vatican II itself "proposes again the decrees of the Council of Trent." On 12/31/95, honoring the 450th anniversary of the opening of Trent, Pope John Paul II declared, "Its conclusions maintain all their value." (From The Berean Call) </font>[/QUOTE]Since the language spoken at the opening of Vatican II in Rome was not English, I knew immediately that these “quotes” could not possibly be genuine but it took me a few hours to run them down and find where they came from. Here is what I learned:

On August 13, 1997, a patient at Saint Mary’s of Bethlehem had a nightmare about Pope John and posted to the hospital’s message board that John Paul said these things at the opening of Vatican II. On September 6, 1997, a fanatical anti-Catholic “ministry” found these “quotes” on that hospital’s message board and quoted them as actual quotes on their web site. Since then, 769 more anti-Catholic web sites have copied these words word for word and quoted them on their web sites. Whoops, I just woke up from a nightmare!

</font>[/QUOTE]Ya, and the writings of The Council of Trent was really found on a bathroom wall at a restaurant outside the Vatican a few years bach, and Catholics always really believed the same Gospel as we do.

That and while you sleep, Tinker Bell will fly in your window and take you off to Never-Never Land.

And also while you sleep, your Catholic 'friends' are on the highway to hell.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Maybe Diggin's last post was not debate, but final stand.

I see what is being said, and what Diggin has posted makes more sense than the many posts from those arguing with Him.

Jesus never stated Go bury your father, but did indeed say Follow me. Let the dead bury their dead.

I can see where it would make sense for the one who chose to live a sinful lifestyle to be buried by his sinful crowd.

Sure, witness and comfort the family. Christ would want that. But don't go in their pagan places of worship.

I have the same convictions not to go in a pagan church. If I disobey the Holy Spirit and go in there, I will have to answer. To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I didn't want to mention this before, but I once heard that that phrase had to do with waiting until their father died before moving on. The father could have been somewhat young and healthy with manyyears ahead of him.

Has anyone else here ever heard that interpretation before? </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, that is what I see.. If His father had recently died, he would have been busy with the burial.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have never heard of someone burying a person who is still alive, unless it is with the intent to kill them.

bury in the greek is translated inter.
Let me go inter my father.

Does not say let me go prepare for the funeral process.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't bury anyone when I go to a Catholic funeral. The mortician does that.

How am I disobeying Christ?

 

[Linda64]

mortician

n : one whose business is the management of funerals [syn: undertaker, funeral undertaker, funeral director]

A mortician does not bury anyone. Cemetary maintenance does all that.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thank you for that technical clarification Linda. I am grateful for your willingness to teach an unlearned one such as I.

I will restate my post with your correction to see if someone can answer my question.

I don't bury anyone when I go to a Catholic funeral. Cemetary maintainance does that.

How am I disobeying Christ?

 

[mcdirector]

I feel like we are playing ring around the rosey, and I got lost somewhere getting put in the mush pot.

Roger, no one will answer your question directly because it can't be answered. Jesus didn't tell us to leave the spiritual dead alone. AND oh my goodness! Who am I to determine if someone is really and truly spiritually dead! Jesus didn't tell us to leave the physically dead alone -- that would be a physical hazard. and a disgusting one too.

He told us to go out into the world and tell His story -- for all we know going to that Catholic funeral may well be equivalent to witnessing in Samaria. My job is to keep spreading the good news and I will say again that if going to a Catholic funeral opens a door for me to share Jesus with someone I AM going!

Humbly submitted.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

So far they have pointes out a typo and corrected a technicality in a definition.

Still no answer.

I agree with you Bitsy, what a wonderful opportunity to show the love of Christ without any Biblical compromise.

What would they say if I were to type that I have actually attended a mass that was not a funeral?