Featured Sincerity

Hi Gina,

Of course what Jesus said is right! However, the issue is not what Jesus said but what he meant by "believe" in contrast to what some theologions interpet it to mean. For example, those in John 6:64 professed faith and were baptized and yet they never "beleived" in the true Biblical sense of the term and they were never drawn by the Father to come to Christ in faith even though they came by profession (Jn. 6:65). Hence, no one disputes what Christ said but the problem is how it is understood and applied. For example, "easy believism" is an expression to summarize how some understand and define what Jesus said. For example, "dead faith" and "vain faith" are Biblical examples to explain what Jesus did not mean by "believe."

So the issue is not do we believe what Jesus said. The issue is do we all understand what he meant?

 

Really????? Works is best defined in regard to sinful works. Sin includes motive, thoughts, choices, words and actions that are contrary to God's revealed will - Lk. 15; 1 Cor. 15:31. Hence, works includes your motive, your thoughts, your choices, your words and your actions.

In direct contrast the verse that reads "for it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of God's Good pleasure" defines grace as CAUSATIVE for such choices and actions that please God.

Now, either God gets the CAUSATIVE credit or man does! Arminians deny that God gets the causative credit in regard to WILLING that which pleases God in regard to the gospel because you deny it is God's will that actually obtains that kind of choice. You give the credit to the human will and only credit God in making the choice possible but the human will with full credit for the CAUSE for that choice.

 

You are a 'Johnny came lately' to this part of the conversation. I quoted a direct quote from God and then a direct quote from Websters. I didn't make an argument, I didn't even give my opinion. P4T disagreed with my post but has yet to offer a definition of boasting which would fit his views regarding what God himself said about boasting. I'm waiting on that definition.

 

No, from what I've read you made a generalized blanket accusation that I was using "debate tactics." You never quoted the actual 'tactic,' named the tactic, or in any way made a case for your unfounded accusations. Make your case. You are welcome to use simple words, but you can't call me deceptive. That is just a "nicer way" of calling me a 'liar' and it isn't necessary. What if I did that to you every time you used a tactic or disagreed with something I said? We would just go in circles calling each other liars. That is the lowest form of debate and I think we can do better.

 

You cannot cite one Scripture which verifies your misguided and God-dishonoring statement.

Furthermore, not one board member has come to your defense.

Are you now reflecting the stubborn attitude of another member who denies original sin?: “I don’t care how many Scriptures you cite. I don’t care that no other professing Christian here is in agreement with me. My opinion is the correct one.”

This is what you should have written:

Apart from grace NO MAN CAN OR WILL REPENT UNTO LIFE.

Apart from grace NO MAN CAN OR WILL BELIEVE UNTO LIFE.

“Without me ye can do nothing.”

The repentant believer has been justified.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Justified believers are no longer accounted guilty rebels deserving of Hell.

Instead, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to their account.

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

They have entered into a peaceful reconciliation with God, as their Father…….not their Judge.

Will you now publicly apologize for your unbiblical assertion?

Like the Prodigal Son, a repentant spirit would be welcomed here.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

ONly cals worry about coming to others defense. Non cals do not see that as necessary. So that argument does not prove right or wrong. Only cals travel in packs.

 

Then what was the purpose of citing Calvin?

Are you denying you found the quote in an anti-cal argument?

Are you now having us believe you are on Calvin's side?

 

"In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Please present your case.

Skandelon is but one witness.

You would make it two.

 

True. So true. The question was sincerity though. If one is sincere, that's the only question. They either are, or they are not. There's no great secret to it. That's really all there is to it, like the opening post asked.
There's nothing to add to "sincere belief." That was the question posed, right? He asked if it's really that simple.

Yes. It's that simple.

Any arguments there?

BTW, I totally agree about easy believism. Here are my thoughts on that, read it and please post on the thread. I'm kind of sad that people stopped. It was a good topic. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2067654&postcount=60

 

Right, but even fruits that are effectually generated by God can be considered meritorious. I'm not saying that is what you believe, I'm simply saying that some could see it that way. For example, God could make someone repent so that they will be worthy of being forgiven. Or God could make someone repent but still only save them on the merit of Christ's righteousness (grace). See my point?

I brought that up to compare and contrast with OUR view of salvation. As we don't believe men, even if response-able, are saved by the merit of their response.

Put another way...the response of man to the gospel, whether controlled by God or not, doesn't necessarily merit the man's salvation. The example of the Prodigal is the best one I can think of, as the response of the Father to the son's return home is purely gracious, not meritorious. Do you understand? Again, I'm not asking for agreement, but it would be nice to finally get someone to understand and restate something accurately around here.

 

I understand that Christ's life and death is the SOLE basis of meriting justification before God. The whole argument is about HOW Christ's merits becomes our justification before God. Rome denies we are justified by works as it defines the sacraments as means of grace to convey the merits of Christ to our own persons. The SDA claims that the merits of Christ are imparted to our own Person through the power of the Holy Spirit so that we are personally enabled to keep the Law and be ultimately justified by the Law.

You believe the lost man is enabled by the gospel to merely choose one way or the other while God and Satan are mere cheer leaders hoping thatthey (God, Satan) will be the final object of man's will. Thus ultimately the human will is credited with the determinate cause of salvation as neither God or Satan can take that credit without forfeiting the doctrine of free will.

I believe the merits of Christ are applied by grace exactly as they are provided by grace - without our help = works - so that it is God that worketh in us both TO WILL and TO DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

 

EXACTLY, and that is true regardless of whether our faith is a free response or a divinely determined one. Do you understand?

As explained in the other thread, this is a false statement, as even those who believe and repent could justly be condemned for sin. It is only by His Grace that those who choose to believe are actually saved. His gracious choice to save the repentant is the determinative factor. Only if you presume God's choice to save the repentant is a given (or is somehow deserved) is this statement true, and that is not what we believe.

 

P4T, I'm still waiting on your definition of boasting that makes God's words acceptable to you and your system....

Waiting...

 

P4T,

That post wasn't directed to you, I'm still waiting on your definition of Boasting to replace Websters so as to reconcile your view with God's words....

Waiting....

 

God said, "Let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD."

How do you define boasting as it is used by God in this text?