"Sinful Behavior" of SBC Pastors' Conference Favorite Detailed

[agedman]

Proof of James McDonald narcissism comes from Jacob Ross, MacDonald‘s personal assistant.

Jacob was James MacDonald’s personal assistant. It appears that MacDonald couldn’t get *de-stressed* without spending huge amounts of church money on things like safaris, resorts, luxury cars, etc. MacDonald didn’t really like to spend time with most of his staff and, if I had to guess, with most of the members of the church. He was far too busy with things like buying houses, acquiring trophy deer and killing beautiful bears.

It appears that he has a volatile temper which he coupled with insulting words thrown at anyone who didn’t do everything in his or her power to make MacDonald’s day filled with luxuries and ease.

Perhaps the most damning allegation of all was the fact that MacDonald believes that he is really, really special and that everyone needs to be fully aware of this fact, including pastors in Nepal who apparently didn’t appreciate the fact that they were in the presence of true greatness.
​

For those who would continue to excuse MacDonald, try seeing the damage done to the testimony of Christ by first hand folks, and those who are current leaders ask if you would tolerate this man on staff?

Look and listen:
Harvest Bible Chapel’s Pastor James MacDonald is OUT; the Painful Personal Stories Left in the Wake


There is no room in the ministry for this man.

 

[Shoostie]

The facts are not in dispute.

What facts? I haven't seen any material facts to justify firing him. The article doesn't give anything less vague than "sinful pattern of inappropriate language, anger, and domineering behavior.” Let's hear some specific examples of intolerable behavior.

The Left declares as a fact that Trump called white supremacists very fine people, when Trump did not. You can't say personal agenda doesn't change the facts, when the facts have yet to be established. People with an agenda make up "facts" and misrepresent facts.

Did he cheat on his wife? No. Did he steal church funds? No. But, he has a pattern of getting angry?

 

[agedman]

What facts? I haven't seen any material facts to justify firing him. The article doesn't give anything less vague than "sinful pattern of inappropriate language, anger, and domineering behavior.” Let's hear some specific examples of intolerable behavior.

The Left declares as a fact that Trump called white supremacists very fine people, when Trump did not. You can't say personal agenda doesn't change the facts, when the facts have yet to be established. People with an agenda make up "facts" and misrepresent facts.

Did he cheat on his wife? No. Did he steal church funds? No. But, he has a pattern of getting angry?

There is more from other sources.

 

[agedman]

James MacDonald begins to confess, yet is unwilling to come to terms with Harvest.

Until he deals openly and honestly with them, and they can again endorse a ministry, he can only look longingly for Christ to appoint him, but should not expect such anytime, soon.

Here is his latest “confession:”

James MacDonald

Interesting he is “planning the future” rather than total surrender of all future as he deals with the “sufficient evil of the day.”​

 

[Shoostie]

James MacDonald begins to confess, yet is unwilling to come to terms with Harvest.

Until he deals openly and honestly with them, and they can again endorse a ministry, he can only look longingly for Christ to appoint him, but should not expect such anytime, soon.

Here is his latest “confession:”

James MacDonald

Interesting he is “planning the future” rather than total surrender of all future as he deals with the “sufficient evil of the day.”​

Beth Moore is utterly Antichrist and reeks of the vomit of Hell. That is what she said, and worse, of a teenager who said and did nothing, while a racist harassed him by beating a drum in his face. So, it's completely fair for me to use her own words to describe her. The point is, I'm not convinced by vague accusations and small personal failings. Real sins can be described with physical detail. But, this world is full of immoral people who reek of the vomit of Hell who love to try to convince others of their own virtue by unfairly judging others. The Christian community has more than it's fair share of such people. And, I have no doubt that this is at least partly at play here.

MacDonald's confession begins with saying he is very sorry for the careless and hurtful words that were illegally recorded and publicized. These words that he's sorry for, like the phony claim for impeachment that Trump blackmailed the Ukrainian leader, led to MacDonald being fired. Those words don't come remotely close to justify firing MacDonald. It was a small personal failing and has apologized for it.

The Democrats are engaged in a kind of coup, which is probably what was happening at MacDonald's former church.

MacDonald built that church from nothing, and so deserves some deference. If his personalty was so toxic, as claimed, the church wouldn't have grown as it did.

 

[agedman]

Beth Moore is utterly Antichrist and reeks of the vomit of Hell. That is what she said, and worse, of a teenager who said and did nothing, while a racist harassed him by beating a drum in his face. So, it's completely fair for me to use her own words to describe her. The point is, I'm not convinced by vague accusations and small personal failings. Real sins can be described with physical detail. But, this world is full of immoral people who reek of the vomit of Hell who love to try to convince others of their own virtue by unfairly judging others. The Christian community has more than it's fair share of such people. And, I have no doubt that this is at least partly at play here.

MacDonald's confession begins with saying he is very sorry for the careless and hurtful words that were illegally recorded and publicized. These words that he's sorry for, like the phony claim for impeachment that Trump blackmailed the Ukrainian leader, led to MacDonald being fired. Those words don't come remotely close to justify firing MacDonald. It was a small personal failing and has apologized for it.

The Democrats are engaged in a kind of coup, which is probably what was happening at MacDonald's former church.

MacDonald built that church from nothing, and so deserves some deference. If his personalty was so toxic, as claimed, the church wouldn't have grown as it did.

First, MacDonald didn’t build anything. The church exists because “God added” and not because of human persuasion.

Second, why all this about others failings? Are you seriously presenting that as an excuse for MacDonald to have violated the qualifications of leadership?

Actually, it was because he allowed sin of greed and excess which he then had to cover by allowing the hidden toxic behaviors to emerge.

This is typical of humans.

He has no authority to be in leadership of a church, unless it is in leading the mop around the bathroom floors.

 

[Revmitchell]

All this gossip being posted on this board is ungodly.

 

[Shoostie]

First, MacDonald didn’t build anything. The church exists because “God added” and not because of human persuasion.

Same difference. If God built up the church pastured by this man, there should be no small or vague reason for men to remove him. The final straw was, his private comments, was a very small thing, and just a pretext, as I argued previously.

Actually, it was because he allowed sin of greed and excess which he then had to cover by allowing the hidden toxic behaviors to emerge.

What greed? Was he stealing money, or just collecting the paycheck the elders voted to give him? One website of nonsense against MacDonald says he demanded a 40% pay raise. If the elders have the power to fire him, they had the power to deny the pay raise. No harm no foul. In fact, the elders have control of the churches finances, so it's rather dishonest for anyone to single out MacDonald for any money issues.

I have already addressed and refuted all the arguments that you're repeating. The charges against him appear to be trumped up and politically motivated.

MacDonald is certainly the same man now as the one who started the church from nothing, yet the arguments against him are about the kind of man he is, and not really about anything he has done. If he's a bad man, then shame for all his critics in the church for going to that church in the first place. Why would any of them go to a church led by a greedy man?

 

[agedman]

All this gossip being posted on this board is ungodly.

Certainly, all gossip is ungodly.

Same difference. If God built up the church pastured by this man, there should be no small or vague reason for men to remove him. The final straw was, his private comments, was a very small thing, and just a pretext, as I argued previously.



What greed? Was he stealing money, or just collecting the paycheck the elders voted to give him? One website of nonsense against MacDonald says he demanded a 40% pay raise. If the elders have the power to fire him, they had the power to deny the pay raise. No harm no foul. In fact, the elders have control of the churches finances, so it's rather dishonest for anyone to single out MacDonald for any money issues.

I have already addressed and refuted all the arguments that you're repeating. The charges against him appear to be trumped up and politically motivated.

MacDonald is certainly the same man now as the one who started the church from nothing, yet the arguments against him are about the kind of man he is, and not really about anything he has done. If he's a bad man, then shame for all his critics in the church for going to that church in the first place. Why would any of them go to a church led by a greedy man?

You don't have to believe what others (multiple witness statements) have recorded and published on the web.

His own apology letter(s) and arbitration agreement verify that he is no longer qualified, but that he intends (when restored) to return to the ministry.

He (because he is human) certainly deserves respect, as all humankind do, but the esteem once given, the credibility to his representation as a minister of the Word as a pastor/teacher, and the fellowship with the assembly has been terribly ravaged by his own hands.

I noticed that there have been at least two elder boards that have been formed, an ongoing accounting from an outside firm, and arbitration meetings under the oversight of an outside group.

From what has been published by the current elder board and himself, it looks as though there is some matter of inappropriate use of church funds, and a lengthy time of abuse of power.

Did you know that he refused to let even the elder board know what his salary and salary package included?

Did you know that the church was not given regular financial reports?

Did you know that the elders had to dismiss the financial manager of the church?

So, there is clearly (in the ongoing investigation) mismanagement of the moneys by MacDonald and no accountability as the elders have published did occur.

There is much funds that he will need to give an account, and much actions and words he has said that were not of a godly character in which he admits.

Such do violate Scriptures and disqualify him from the position of elder/pastor/bishop/...


It is regretable that you seem to place esteem in MacDonald rather than agreeing with the Scriptures on the matter of what a person must present in both public and private character to be qualified.

I do have to give him credit for one area.

So far, there is no presentation of moral compromise. That in itself is rather unusual, because typically such is part of the package that is revealed.

 

[Revmitchell]

Certainly, all gossip is

Then stop

 

[agedman]

Then stop

Please post at what point I engaged in "gossip?"

That is a serious matter.

Have I not documented and encouraged others to look at what each has provided as factual?

Have I not pointed to what you and I both know satisfies the qualifications of Godly leadership of pastor/elder/bishop/...

Is it gossip to present that high standard in such a manner as to encourage and warn others in their own living of the ravages of sin?

Is it wrong to state that narcissistic behavior and narcissism has not place in the life of a ministry of the Godspel?

I need you to present exactly where?

Gossip involves presenting to others that which involves someone else that is basically untrue.

To my knowledge, I have not.

Are you just not willing to own what has happened to that man as a warning for all?

 

[Revmitchell]

Please post at what point I engaged in "gossip?"

That is a serious matter.

Have I not documented and encouraged others to look at what each has provided as factual?

Have I not pointed to what you and I both know satisfies the qualifications of Godly leadership of pastor/elder/bishop/...

Is it gossip to present that high standard in such a manner as to encourage and warn others in their own living of the ravages of sin?

Is it wrong to state that narcissistic behavior and narcissism has not place in the life of a ministry of the Godspel?

I need you to present exactly where?

Gossip involves presenting to others that which involves someone else that is basically untrue.

To my knowledge, I have not.

Are you just not willing to own what has happened to that man as a warning for all?

Post 21 specifically but really every post of yours. Its gossip

 

[Shoostie]

His own apology letter(s) and arbitration agreement verify that he is no longer qualified, but that he intends (when restored) to return to the ministry.

I read the letter. It looks like the kind of apology a man gives to his wife, regardless of reality or degree of wrongdoing. It's about trying to move on, rather than fight a battle that he'd be condemned just for fighting.

Did you know that he refused to let even the elder board know what his salary and salary package included?

Did he lie? Did he steal? If the elders can fire him, why didn't they have control of the salary and package deal?

 

[agedman]

Post 21 specifically but really every post of yours. Its gossip

Here is post 21:

Proof of James McDonald narcissism comes from Jacob Ross, MacDonald‘s personal assistant.

Jacob was James MacDonald’s personal assistant. It appears that MacDonald couldn’t get *de-stressed* without spending huge amounts of church money on things like safaris, resorts, luxury cars, etc. MacDonald didn’t really like to spend time with most of his staff and, if I had to guess, with most of the members of the church. He was far too busy with things like buying houses, acquiring trophy deer and killing beautiful bears.

It appears that he has a volatile temper which he coupled with insulting words thrown at anyone who didn’t do everything in his or her power to make MacDonald’s day filled with luxuries and ease.

Perhaps the most damning allegation of all was the fact that MacDonald believes that he is really, really special and that everyone needs to be fully aware of this fact, including pastors in Nepal who apparently didn’t appreciate the fact that they were in the presence of true greatness.
​

For those who would continue to excuse MacDonald, try seeing the damage done to the testimony of Christ by first hand folks, and those who are current leaders ask if you would tolerate this man on staff?

Look and listen:
Harvest Bible Chapel’s Pastor James MacDonald is OUT; the Painful Personal Stories Left in the Wake


There is no room in the ministry for this man.

I quoted Jacob Ross - MacDonalds personal assistant.

Provided a link. which states that MacDonald:

Among the things said in the audio is MacDonald talking about planting child pornography on Christianity Today CEO’s Harold Smith’s computer, crude remarks about Julie Roys — including joking that she had an affair with CT Editor-in-Chief Mark Galli — and a vulgar reference to Ed Stetzer, executive director of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College.​

That is not gossip. He admitted it all, publicly.


May I ask if you perhaps esteem this man above what perhaps is wise and looking for an excuse for his behavior?

I ask in all honesty, because over 40 years ago another man was repeatedly confronted, and it got very ugly. You can google Jack Hyles (or the son Dave) for the details.

Those who were defending him use similar terms as seen in this thread.

Friend the greatest downfall of a minister of the gospel is the results of pride and love of this world. Such pride and haughty spirit have no place in the life of a believer, much less that of one who is qualified as an elder/bishop/ or even that of a deacon.

You know this, and yet some persist rather than walk humbly before God, they must bluster and rage - sorry for being outed, but not truly repentant.

MacDonald, claiming he will one day return to the ministry, is an indicator he has not yet gotten a heart change and not yet truly broken before God. Now that is my opinion, but such is based on personal knowledge of too many failed ministers of the Gospel.

 

[agedman]

I read the letter. It looks like the kind of apology a man gives to his wife, regardless of reality or degree of wrongdoing. It's about trying to move on, rather than fight a battle that he'd be condemned just for fighting.



Did he lie? Did he steal? If the elders can fire him, why didn't they have control of the salary and package deal?

Many a man makes an apology to the wife without true regard for wrong doing. That is more often (imo) seen when moral issues are involved. It is as you stated, trying to move on rather than fight a lost battle.

Yet, that presents the very problem of most apologies of that sort. There is no room for openness and resolve.

For example, a man brings a sword of moral failure into the home. It is there as long as they will live. That failure will not be forgotten. It is not in the capacity of the partner to forget such betrayal.

The body of Christ is His bride. The under shepherd who betrays the trust of that body will always carry that sword for the rest of their days. There is no "moving on" without both repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

Until MacDonald can show that the repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation has taken place with Harvest, then there is no more ministry as elder/pastor/ bishop or even deacon that should be expected.

Now you ask a VERY good question concerning the salary.

Apparently, there was no such accountability in place, and I can see that it was necessary and should have been.

How that lesson was learned is hard on the folks, and if they are not very careful the rule will shift from the Biblical elders to "committees" and that will be highly problematic for their future.

I am not opposed to committees, but they are for input and advice, not for establishing rules and regulations without regard to the consent of the elders.

 

[Revmitchell]

Here is post 21:


I quoted Jacob Ross - MacDonalds personal assistant.

Provided a link. which states that MacDonald:

Among the things said in the audio is MacDonald talking about planting child pornography on Christianity Today CEO’s Harold Smith’s computer, crude remarks about Julie Roys — including joking that she had an affair with CT Editor-in-Chief Mark Galli — and a vulgar reference to Ed Stetzer, executive director of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College.​

That is not gossip. He admitted it all, publicly.


May I ask if you perhaps esteem this man above what perhaps is wise and looking for an excuse for his behavior?

I ask in all honesty, because over 40 years ago another man was repeatedly confronted, and it got very ugly. You can google Jack Hyles (or the son Dave) for the details.

Those who were defending him use similar terms as seen in this thread.

Friend the greatest downfall of a minister of the gospel is the results of pride and love of this world. Such pride and haughty spirit have no place in the life of a believer, much less that of one who is qualified as an elder/bishop/ or even that of a deacon.

You know this, and yet some persist rather than walk humbly before God, they must bluster and rage - sorry for being outed, but not truly repentant.

MacDonald, claiming he will one day return to the ministry, is an indicator he has not yet gotten a heart change and not yet truly broken before God. Now that is my opinion, but such is based on personal knowledge of too many failed ministers of the Gospel.

Its still gossip. Whether its true or not is not a factor.

 

[agedman]

Its still gossip. Whether its true or not is not a factor.

No, it is not "still gossip" or your continual posting in the current events section would be gossip.

You have (by admitting it as truthful) presented a false accusation toward me.

My very first post on this thread expressed an undocumented opinion:

The man is not qualified as an elder.

He may think he is, but he is not.

His character and greed have disqualified him.

But some will not abide in this strict view and chase after all manner of excuses that their ears be tickled.

You ask:

Prove it

As a result of YOUR own request, I have continued to document as proof.

Now, some do not like that proof, so I offered more, even first hand accounts.

That you still want to disregard the first hand accounts now as "gossip" is troubling.

Because as this thread is revealing, to some posters on this thread, long term sinful behavior and lack of character doesn't seem to disqualify a man from the role of elder/bishop/pastor...!

How is it that the whole of every Godly pastor is not merely alarmed but enraged that this man has done disgrace to the ministry. That Satan doesn't just accuse, but has now cause to accuse the brethren and more especially those servants of God who are the examples for all?

This man should not be defended!

This man should be held not only accountable to Harvest, but to all believers, for he is well published and known. His example has been followed by countless.

How devastating Harvest may be, the damage to the whole testimony of Christ is unaccounted and completely unacceptable.

Yet some on the BB would excuse him?

My hope is that God will have mercy that those who deal with this situation be very cautious that the very error they attempt to correct is not brought upon themselves.

That the damaged and ruined will use this not to be cast down but to be strengthened in God, and that they find in Him that refuge that they sought in humankind and were disappointed.

 

[Revmitchell]

Truth is just as much gossip as falsehoods. I do not need to defend him. His situation makes me sad and I believe it dows harm to the Kingdom.

You however seem to want him destroyed. I doubt your motives are pure simply by the way you have posted about him. Your posts are pure hate.

 

[agedman]

Truth is just as much gossip as falsehoods. I do not need to defend him. His situation makes me sad and I believe it dows harm to the Kingdom.

You however seem to want him destroyed. I doubt your motives are pure simply by the way you have posted about him. Your posts are pure hate.

40 years go people stood and said the same thing to a number of us, then.

Most have repented and apologized when they realized it wasn't from hate, but from presenting the truth that all could not dispute it.

I am of no need to "destroy" or distort the message from both Harvest or the MacDonalds. But when those like you would bring the thinking of it being a little importance, that it is all rumor and no substance, that it is all a power play, then that just isn't reality.

Frankly, I have no "dog in the fight" other than the warning others about the attitude and character of any believer can destroy a ministry - no matter the size - when greed, lust, pride ... are not presented as extremely sinful and laid in repentance in submission to the authority of God.


The larger question must be ask of posters who are not incensed with the obvious sinfulness of this man that is no sudden event, but that which has gone on for years?

Where is the Godly outrage that would allow, without submission to Harvest, restoration?

I think that some are more interested in defending evil than standing for righteousness, more interested in Trump than truth, more interested in letting little foxes get through because they are cuddly and destroy out of innocence and nature.

It isn’t hate that compelled me to post.

It was the shameful presentation that in some manner I was “gossiping,” spreading rumors and falsehood, and other such silliness.

You want to look at hate?

Look in the mirror, and see if you recognize the damage done by the s corners, mockers, the deceivers who pretend to lead the sheep, but are puppets to the flesh and worldliness. That place great gain as Godliness, and are unashamed to revel in sin and sinfulness.

Such are those who would excuse people as MacDonald.

Such dwell in the land of nod and hate.

 

[Revmitchell]

I dont believe you