Single Predestination

[Scott Downey]

Christ purchased only the elect's salvation who are the church with His own blood, He did not pay for the sins of all those who are of the world.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Ephesians 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

If you are the redeemed of the Lord, then He paid for your sins with His blood. If you are not redeemed, then Christ did not purchase you with His blood, His death does not save you. People are only redeemed when blood is shed for them.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

So then maybe you can understand limited atonement or particular redemption, the L of Tulip. Atonement meaning the forgiveness of your sins.

 

[ivdavid]

Unless I am mistaken, I see many things here that are only made for damnation.

No, you're not mistaken in seeing that. It's just that a plain direct reading of these passages seem to conflict with other passages in Scriptures and so we must dig in further to see what God reveals about Himself - I wouldn't call that sophistry though. It simply requires us to hold the tension of paradoxes until we are shown the reconciliation.

Rom 9 is about explaining the optics of how it seemingly looks like God's promises to His elect have failed (Rom 9:6), seen in the rejection of Israel (Rom 9:3) and the taking of the Gospel to the gentiles. Paul explains that no such promise was made to the non-elect (Rom 9:8), that not all Israel is elect (Rom 9:6-7), and further the rejection of non-elect Israel actually follows the patterns of Scripture in God hardening the hearts of those completed for destruction to show forth His glory (Rom 9:22-23).

But how do calvinists read God's hardening of hearts for destruction as a predestined ordinance - for we have clear evidence from Scriptures that God hardens those who have filled up their measure of iniquity and not before. Christ didn't come into the world earlier than He did for this reason. Matt 23:37 does occur before God hardens non-elect Israel in judgement right? How do you reconcile God's desire for these non-elect to be saved if He had already predestined them to be condemned and destroyed?

Single Predestination avoids this contradiction by holding God as conditionally desiring the salvation of the non-elect. And when they reject His call to salvation in filling up their measure of iniquity, they are completed for destruction then. God turns them over to their own corruption, makes them a vessel of His wrath and begins His judgement on them. God could destroy them in their sleep immediately, or use them as props by hardening their hearts to show forth His glory. While election and non-election occur before factoring in any of man's good or evil for God to be completely sovereign and impartial, judgement in condemnation is always after and for man's evil.

And when you proof-text 2Pet 2:12, do you also believe that these same people were bought by the Lord (2Pet 2:1) and that they'd once escaped the pollutions of the world and knew the way of righteousness through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2Pet 2:20-21)?
Single Predestination reconciles these as well as the Hebrews falling away passages.

 

[ivdavid]

Your question looks like a re-wording of a type of 'free-will' salvation; arguing for an 'elect' individual to obtain their salvation.

I thought I was careful not to apply any form of 'free-will' salvation to the elect. The elect are saved exactly as calvinism holds it in its entirety.

It's not harmonious with Calvinism and is yet another level of Arminianism.

Well, my OP has my goal of showing how Single Predestination reconciles calvinism and arminianism - so you are going to find qualified arminianism in there.

While salvation of the elect is entirely as stated in calvinism, the condemnation of the non-elect plays out as believed in arminianism.

The problem is both camps take an all-or-nothing approach. According to calvinism, if the elect are predestined salvation, then inversely, the non-elect must be predestined condemnation - that's not logical, they could not be predestined anything and have salvation conditioned on simply their faith. And similarly according to arminianism, if the non-elect are condemned by their own self-determining to remain/fall away in their evil, then inversely the elect must self-determine their way into salvation - this is not logical too. Inverses are simply not equal truths - this is just flawed human reasoning over the basics.

'they must self-determine': Then man does not have total depravity?

Of course, he does. For which God must necessarily give him a new heart and His Holy Spirit as means to overcome. I find evidence in Scripture to see God granting this grace and mercy conditionally upon the non-elect. The self-determining by the non-elect is to continue in this washed state without returning to the mud (2Pet 2:22)

'to endure in through faith': The personal ''Holiness' movement?

Matt 24:13? The elect are preserved in God's promise - the remaining non-elect are conditionally provided means of salvation through faith alone.

It's all so ambiguous despite being over-loaded with terms. I'm not sure as to what you are arguing for.

I truly am sorry it's inconvenient at this time - but my appeal is to be patient through the discussion. I am always ready to clarify and elaborate whenever a question is posed. (my replies may be delayed but i will respond to every point without evasion)

If you're not quite familiar with Single Predestination, applying all the doctrines of calvinism to the elect and simultaneously applying all the doctrines of arminianism to the non-elect might help as a starting point.

 

[Scott Downey]

I thought I was careful not to apply any form of 'free-will' salvation to the elect. The elect are saved exactly as calvinism holds it in its entirety.


Well, my OP has my goal of showing how Single Predestination reconciles calvinism and arminianism - so you are going to find qualified arminianism in there.

While salvation of the elect is entirely as stated in calvinism, the condemnation of the non-elect plays out as believed in arminianism.

The problem is both camps take an all-or-nothing approach. According to calvinism, if the elect are predestined salvation, then inversely, the non-elect must be predestined condemnation - that's not logical, they could not be predestined anything and have salvation conditioned on simply their faith. And similarly according to arminianism, if the non-elect are condemned by their own self-determining to remain/fall away in their evil, then inversely the elect must self-determine their way into salvation - this is not logical too. Inverses are simply not equal truths - this is just flawed human reasoning over the basics.


Of course, he does. For which God must necessarily give him a new heart and His Holy Spirit as means to overcome. I find evidence in Scripture to see God granting this grace and mercy conditionally upon the non-elect. The self-determining by the non-elect is to continue in this washed state without returning to the mud (2Pet 2:22)


Matt 24:13? The elect are preserved in God's promise - the remaining non-elect are conditionally provided means of salvation through faith alone.


I truly am sorry it's inconvenient at this time - but my appeal is to be patient through the discussion. I am always ready to clarify and elaborate whenever a question is posed. (my replies may be delayed but i will respond to every point without evasion)

If you're not quite familiar with Single Predestination, applying all the doctrines of calvinism to the elect and simultaneously applying all the doctrines of arminianism to the non-elect might help as a starting point.

The elect in scripture means chosen of God for salvation, honestly there are not any non-elect people who God saves.
Paul tells us who the elect are, describing both elect and non elect.
Of the non elect, they are the rest who were blinded, in this case by God.

Romans 11:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
Paul in Romans 8-11 is not speaking of the salvation of the Jews only, but also of the gentiles.
The concept is the elect obtain salvation while the rest are blinded. And 'God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew', is true for both jew and gentile that God foreknew as His people, He saves His people whom He foreknew from their sins.

In other scriptures, the non-elect, who typically are referred to as the 'others', 'the rest', who are the unbelievers, are blinded by the 'god of this age' implying the devil, which is why they don't believe. And that those God saves, the devil can not prevent them from being saved, as God shines out of them His light, this is what it means to be born of God, God indwelling the new creation. God has shone in our hearts and that is why we were no longer blinded to the truth, the blindness caused by the devil, God removed from us. God gave us 'eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart that understands', but God did not do that for the others, they remain blinded.

2 Corinthians 4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Light of Christ’s Gospel
1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[ivdavid]

The wrath of God abides on those who do not believe, their sins remain and they die in their sins.... Unbelievers sins remain on them.

True. I agree to believe otherwise is to not be faithful to Scriptures.

You can not bring the various sides into agreement through any kind of logical thought.

I know none will be convinced unless God works in them - I never accepted any truth of God myself apart from Him opening hearts and minds. And I'm sure I hold many more blind-spots. I just find myself fully persuaded about the truth in single predestination and about this being the path of reconciliation for over 500 years of division, which I'm earnestly hoping for.

 

[Revmitchell]

The elect in scripture means chosen of God for salvation, honestly there are not any non-elect people who God saves.
Paul tells us who the elect are, describing both elect and non elect.
Of the non elect, they are the rest who were blinded, in this case by God.

Romans 11:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
Paul in Romans 8-11 is not speaking of the salvation of the Jews only, but also of the gentiles.
The concept is the elect obtain salvation while the rest are blinded. And 'God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew', is true for both jew and gentile that God foreknew as His people, He saves His people whom He foreknew from their sins.

In other scriptures, the non-elect, who typically are referred to as the 'others', 'the rest', who are the unbelievers, are blinded by the 'god of this age' implying the devil, which is why they don't believe. And that those God saves, the devil can not prevent them from being saved, as God shines out of them His light, this is what it means to be born of God, God indwelling the new creation. God has shone in our hearts and that is why we were no longer blinded to the truth, the blindness caused by the devil, God removed from us. God gave us 'eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart that understands', but God did not do that for the others, they remain blinded.

2 Corinthians 4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Light of Christ’s Gospel
1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Why would non elect need to be blinded by God since their nature already blinds them.

 

[Scott Downey]

Why would non elect need to be blinded by God since their nature already blinds them.

In scripture, God blinds some and others are blinded by the devil.

John 12:37-41 New King James Version (NKJV)

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:
“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Their blindness is in their creation, God has blinded them from their birth. So then according to their nature of being fallen man, God blinded them.
Why He does that is so that no flesh can glory in His presence and understand spiritual truth about who are God and Christ in their own efforts according to the flesh and their minds. Knowledge of them has to be revealed by them to man, from His Spirit to our spirits the things of God. God wont allow man to figure out anything about Himself and Christ except by revelation. They can not believe because in this case, God blinded them.

He did not let Adam and Eve reach out for themselves to take of the Tree of Life and eat and live forever.

 

[Scott Downey]

Regarding the devil blinding people, the devil is a counterfeit god, he can not make blind eyes see, nor can he make eyes that see blind. The devil just captures the fallen evil imagination of blinded men and further blinds them, reinforcing the blindness they already have due to their fallen nature as they were created by God. Everyone was born blinded, except Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

Their blindness is in their creation, God has blinded them from their birth.

Great!Where does scripture say that its from their birth and in their creation?

 

[Scott Downey]

Great!Where does scripture say that its from their birth and in their creation?

God did not give to people from their birth, eyes that see, ears that can hear Him, or a heart that perceives God at work. This is their natural condition from their birth.

If God did not give them eyes that see, that means the eyes God gave them can not see from their natural birth, as He created them.

Deuteronomy 29:2-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land— 3 the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to [a]perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

 

[Revmitchell]

God did not give to people from their birth, eyes that see, ears that can hear Him, or a heart that perceives God at work. This is their natural condition from their birth.

If God did not give them eyes that see, that means the eyes God gave them can not see, as He

Those are not the only choices. However, it appears your claim is an assumption based on your own idea of choices available but not from scripture.

 

[MB]

Christ purchased only the elect's salvation who are the church with His own blood, He did not pay for the sins of all those who are of the world.

Where does God's Word say such a thing?. It's plainly is not in scripture so it must be that old calvinist imagination. Only the elect would leave all Gentiles lost.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Ephesians 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

If you are the redeemed of the Lord, then He paid for your sins with His blood. If you are not redeemed, then Christ did not purchase you with His blood, His death does not save you. People are only redeemed when blood is shed for them..

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Christ died for the whole world. Not some imaginary elect Gentiles alone.

So then maybe you can understand limited atonement or particular redemption, the L of Tulip. Atonement meaning the forgiveness of your sins.

The atonement is not limited to just a few imaginary elect Gentiles.
MB

 

[Scott Downey]

Those are not the only choices. However, it appears your claim is an assumption based on your own idea of choices available but not from scripture.

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

By Jesus saying this, obviously people who cant 'hear' as in hear and obey and believe and see, (all goes along with this hearing) , are not of God. They remain in their naturally fallen and blinded condition as originally created by God. It is why you must be born again, because the first creation is just flesh and not of the Spirit, even though both are made by God as the Creator. Those who are of the flesh only , are lacking spiritual sight and spiritual hearing. Jesus says you must be born again 'of God' to be spirit. Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Even though God created them both. One God created blinded as in as of the flesh, the other gifted with spiritual sight as in of the Spirit as spirit.

 

[MB]

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Christ was speaking to the Jews and yes they were blinded to the truth. He didn't say this to the Gentiles. Maybe you are a Jew .My apologies if so.
MB

 

[MB]

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

By Jesus saying this, obviously people who cant 'hear' as in hear and obey and believe and see, (all goes along with this hearing) , are not of God. They remain in their naturally fallen and blinded condition as originally created by God. It is why you must be born again, because the first creation is just flesh and not of the Spirit, even though both are made by God as the Creator. Those who are of the flesh only , are lacking spiritual sight and spiritual hearing. Jesus says you must be born again 'of God' to be spirit. Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Even though God created them both. One God created blinded as in as of the flesh, the other gifted with spiritual sight as in of the Spirit as spirit.

This is funny really you are blinded by Calvinism. Only Scripture is right and it clearly does not say what you claim. You quote scriptures that do not pertain to your premise. You are a died in the wool Calvinist alright, full of self pride self assured and believes he knows it all. LOL.
MB

 

[ivdavid]

Christ purchased only the elect's salvation who are the church with His own blood, He did not pay for the sins of all those who are of the world.

Agreed. I completely believe in Limited Atonement. I also believe in the genuine universal offer of salvation to all, including the non-elect.

If you are the redeemed of the Lord, then He paid for your sins with His blood. If you are not redeemed, then Christ did not purchase you with His blood, His death does not save you.

Yes. Your statements would be completely true at the end of time on Judgement Day. But there is an entire process that occurs prior to that. Christ is our passover first that whosoever believes in Him will be delivered out of the land of slavery (egypt/sin). We will then be baptized (1Cor 10:2) and be fed of the spiritual meat and drink that is Him (1Cor 10:3-4). But not all who have been brought this far, continue into the promised land (eternal kingdom) and that's because of their own unbelief (1Cor 10:5, Heb 4:1-2).

The elect are preserved to the end but that doesn't exclude the non-elect from being able to access the same means of salvation for a time until they fall away. God factors in this falling away of the non-elect into His atoning work on the cross - for only those who believe to the end are offered redemption (Heb 3:14). And it is thus demonstrated that only God is good while the self / flesh profits nothing. Limited Atonement AND universal offer of salvation.

 

[Revmitchell]

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

By Jesus saying this, obviously people who cant 'hear' as in hear and obey and believe and see, (all goes along with this hearing) , are not of God. They remain in their naturally fallen and blinded condition as originally created by God. It is why you must be born again, because the first creation is just flesh and not of the Spirit, even though both are made by God as the Creator. Those who are of the flesh only , are lacking spiritual sight and spiritual hearing. Jesus says you must be born again 'of God' to be spirit. Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Even though God created them both. One God created blinded as in as of the flesh, the other gifted with spiritual sight as in of the Spirit as spirit.

That is not what Jesus was saying. Who was Jesus talking to?

 

[ivdavid]

This is funny really you are blinded by Calvinism. Only Scripture is right and it clearly does not say what you claim. You quote scriptures that do not pertain to your premise. You are a died in the wool Calvinist alright, full of self pride self assured and believes he knows it all. LOL.
MB

If you believe someone is blinded by error, isn't it more helpful to help them work out of it step-by-step in loving consideration instead of a lol at it? I guess each of us are as convinced of the truth of our own beliefs as anyone else here. Anyway, I find it helpful to simply discuss Scriptures and interpretation principles instead of addressing people or personalities.

 

[37818]

But does God overcome such resistance at any point at all? For without God overcoming the flesh's natural resistance, how exactly are people regenerated or saved?

Well, Romans 3:10 being true. Acts of the Apostles 7:51 being true. Ephesians 2:8-9 being true. No one of oneself seeks God. Some resist the sanctification of God's Spirit. And some by God's grace though faith are now saved.

 

[37818]

That is not what Jesus was saying. Who was Jesus talking to?

Jesus told him everyone musr be born again, ". . . I said unto thee [sngular, him], Ye [plural, everyone] must be born again. . . ."