"Sinless Perfection" before God.

[Hobie]

We have this verse given to us....

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And we have...

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

And Christ Himself says....

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And then we have this...

John 17:22-24 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

So what does it mean.

 

[canadyjd]

The word “perfect” can have the same meaning as “complete”. It doesn’t mean “sinless”, since we have many verses that tell us we are not sinless.

peace to you

 

[Charles Perkins]

It can also mean mature as well as complete. God want us to grow in spiritual maturity which comes of exercising the faith and love God writes into minds and hearts.

 

[Sai]

I am perfect.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Charles Perkins]

I am perfect.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

I feel more mature every day.

 

[canadyjd]

I am perfect.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

Except, if you were truly “perfect” you would never say so because that reveals a prideful heart.

Boasting that you are “perfect” is a sin..... so you are no longer perfect.

peace to you

 

[Sai]

Except, if you were truly “perfect” you would never say so because that reveals a prideful heart.

Boasting that you are “perfect” is a sin..... so you are no longer perfect.

peace to you

He has perfected forever then who are sanctified.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[canadyjd]

He has perfected forever then who are sanctified.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

Boasting you are “sinless” reveals a prideful heart, is sinful, which means you are no longer sinless.

peace to you

 

[Sai]

Boasting you are “sinless” reveals a prideful heart, is sinful, which means you are no longer sinless.

peace to you

“Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[canadyjd]

“Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

Joy unspeakable full of glory

Wow, why don’t you quote it all? Same author, different chapter.

1 John 1:8 “He that says he has no sin has deceived himself and the truth is not in him.”

vs.10 “He that says that he has not sinned makes Him a liar.....”

peace to you

 

[Sai]

Wow, why don’t you quote it all? Same author, different chapter.

1 John 1:8 “He that says he has no sin has deceived himself and the truth is not in him.”

vs.10 “He that says that he has not sinned makes Him a liar.....”

peace to you

“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[canadyjd]

“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

So, now you have to reconcile the passages.

peace to you

 

[Sai]

So, now you have to reconcile the passages.

peace to you

“So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:17‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[canadyjd]

“So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:17‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

So, when you sin it’s not really you that is sinning but the “sin” that is in you that is sinning, therefore you can claim you don’t sin and exist in a state of sinless perfection?

Is that how you reconcile the passages?

peace to you

 

[Sai]

So, when you sin it’s not really you that is sinning but the “sin” that is in you that is sinning, therefore you can claim you don’t sin and exist in a state of sinless perfection?

Is that how you reconcile the passages?

peace to you

No. I have learned in 50 years of my eternal life to no longer identify with that element of existence that fights against what was regenerated in me by the propitious blood of Messiah, “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Sai]

No. I have learned in 50 years of my eternal life to no longer identify with that element of existence that fights against what was regenerated in me by the propitious blood of Messiah, “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

If only those brethren whose lives are in a perpetual state of carnality would learn this simple truth and will reckon it to their accounts then would they become the kind of human beings that they were created to become.
It is only when the believer identifies himself with his old nature that he becomes enabled to continue in sin and carnality because he has rejected the declarative act and declarative statement by our God and Father whereby we are perfected in Christ and are imputed with not our own righteousness but with the very righteousness of God Himself, praise and glory and all honor to God.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[AustinC]

No one, not one, has sinless perfection. Such a thought is that of a legalist trying to be saved by works rather than law.

Instead, we are like David (a man after God's heart) who knew he deserved to die, but God chose to let him live.

2 Samuel 12:13

David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.

 

[canadyjd]

No. I have learned in 50 years of my eternal life to no longer identify with that element of existence that fights against what was regenerated in me by the propitious blood of Messiah, “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭ASV‬‬


Joy unspeakable full of glory

What a nice profession. Thank you for sharing.

But you didn’t reconcile the passages from 1 John.

peace to you

 

[SGO]

Thou canst not see my face:
for there shall no man see me and live.
Exodus 33:20


... it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that,
when he shall appear,
we shall be like him;
for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2


...but we shall all be changed,
In a moment in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:51b-:53



I am not perfect now:



If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9



I will be perfect, and only by an act of God.



For he hath made him
to be sin for us,

who knew no sin;

that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[Sai]

Thou canst not see my face:
for there shall no man see me and live.
Exodus 33:20


... it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that,
when he shall appear,
we shall be like him;
for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2


...but we shall all be changed,
In a moment in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:51b-:53



I am not perfect now:



If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9



I will be perfect, and only by an act of God.



For he hath made him
to be sin for us,

who knew no sin;

that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

Sounds like an excuse to sin. I completely realize that believers continue to commit sin. However, you are not “perfect yet” is only in terms of our temporal lives here, and now. We await the resurrection but it is not our old man nor our sin nature who awaits this glorification but it is our newborn human spirits who are yearning for that moment that we are told happens in the blink of an eye.

So after that event who are we? And therefore who are we really now? Are we our earthen vessel? Or are we perfect in Christ?
The war against the flesh is won by divine enablement and that is performed by reckoning our old men dead and reckoning our newborn spirits as our new identities which can not commit sins against God because they are born of God’s creative breath of life.

Forgive my opening response to your post. I want you to know that I wasted decades of my born again life because I became addicted to fulfilling the list of the sin nature who is very much alive and is continually seeking opportunities to gain control of my will. That part of my temporal existence is not who I am, just ask our Abba Father.

He doeth all things well.


Joy unspeakable full of glory