-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Sinless Perfection
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I did NOT change versions in this post! I quoted many versions, including the NASB, 1995, to show that the Greek word ean means “if.” But you wrote,
Rev. 21:8. "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Your accusation is clearly deliberately false!
Rev. 21:8. "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Why would you attempt to slay your brother Abel? Is it because his deeds are righteous, and your deeds are evil?
I mentioned this earlier but got no takers. This is a good thread to post this on. There's a test you can run on yourself to judge your own level of Christian maturity. It's very accurate but you have to be honest with yourself. I hope all the posters on this thread will take this test.
Are you ready??? Here's the test
HOW MUCH SIN DO YOU SEE IN YOUR OWN LIFE.
That's it.
The more sin you see the higher level of maturity you have reached. If you don't see any you are allready deceived.
Are you ready??? Here's the test
HOW MUCH SIN DO YOU SEE IN YOUR OWN LIFE.
That's it.
The more sin you see the higher level of maturity you have reached. If you don't see any you are allready deceived.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I am not on trial here. Certain pernicious individuals, however, have insisted upon placing Jesus on trial by denying the veracity of his words in John 8:32-36:
John 8:32. and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
33. They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"
34. Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35. "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36. "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
Jesus here promises, “you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." And again, "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.” And the context here (especially verse 34) is indisputably freedom from sin.
Some Christians love their Savior and search the Scriptures for words of strength and encouragement that they may by grace through faith experience the freedom from sin that Jesus promised. Some other people, however, search the Scriptures for verses that they imagine justify their sins. And not being satisfied with being sinners themselves, they make every effort to drag others with them down to the very dregs of wretchedness.
If the words that Jesus spoke as recorded in John 8:32-36 are not true, Jesus was a liar and a sinner and therefore his death on the cross for our sins was not efficacious, as indeed is the claim of certain reprobates; but if the words that Jesus spoke as recorded in John 8:32-36 are true, Jesus is indeed the sinless Son of God and his death on the cross for our sins was efficacious to free us from ours sins.
(All scriptures are from the NASB, 1995)
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Jesus died on the cross to free us from this wretched state of which you write.
No one said you are on trial here. I or anyone else here has authority over you as a judge to pass a death sentence as the Pharisees did upon Jesus concerning the passage you have cited. I asked a simple question to which IMO you have given a paranoid reponse and in addition you yourself have made and passed a judgment upon others in your own words:
James 4
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
HankD
Yes, I know and have experienced His salvation as did the Apostle Paul
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
HankD
I'm not joking at all, and I don't appreciate your inference that I was. My comments are completely scriptural. I'll say it again: Paul, who was saved by the blood of Christ, and knew it, considered himself chief of sinners. That's the kind of faith I want to have!! If you don't like it, you don't have to have that kind of faith. But don't call it unscriptural just because you don't want it. It was good for Paul, and it's good for me.
craigbythesea, In 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I ask you, Changed from what?
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I ask you, Changed from what?
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
1 Pet. 1:1. Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
2. according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4. to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7. so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8. and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9. obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
(NASB, 1995)
Dear Sir,
I am perfectly willing to comment on the meaning of any Greek word or phrase here translated into English, but I do not have time to write a commentary on this very complex passage. The following scholars wrote fine commentaries on 1 Peter, and all of them are readily available to anyone who desires to study this epistle:
Charles Bigg
Peter H. Davids
Edward Gordon Selwyn
J. Ramsey Michaels
Robert Leighton
J. N. D. Kelly
John H. Elliott
Additional fine commentaries on this epistle include the following works which are somewhat less readily available but not at all rare:
John Brown
Robert Johnstone
John Lillie
Alexander Nisbet
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Your interpretation of my response is ridiculously inaccurate. My purpose in posting to this thread has more than adequately been demonstrated to be that of expounding upon the scriptures pertaining to the doctrine of imparted righteousness rather than the behavioral patterns of any particular extrabiblical hominid.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I have passed judgment upon no one; I have simply honestly and accurately portrayed the behavior that I have personally observed in some people with whom I have discussed the doctrine of imparted righteousness.
Look at what King David writes, a Man after God's own heart. The difference in King David and alot of people of today is that King David agrees with God that sin is wrong [Confession], we need to conform our way of thinking to God's way of thinking. David knew that his sin was before God,
nothing can be hid from God.
Psalm 51:3-4 A Psalm of King David
For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight--
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
I have some sin in my life, but it has been confessed and I agree with God that it is wrong.
That's what confess means, not blabing your sins to other people but simply agreeing with God that
he is right and you are wrong.
Remember, When you know to do right and doeth it not, that is sin.
All human will is sin, period.
nothing can be hid from God.
Psalm 51:3-4 A Psalm of King David
For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight--
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
I have some sin in my life, but it has been confessed and I agree with God that it is wrong.
That's what confess means, not blabing your sins to other people but simply agreeing with God that
he is right and you are wrong.
Remember, When you know to do right and doeth it not, that is sin.
All human will is sin, period.
Well, suppose I turn the tables and say that I have observed the same behavioral qualities in you?
You claimed to know the imaginations of certain folks heart, an ability of which presumably God alone is capable.
This is according to the Scripture which I quoted which you appear to have violated and now have excused yourself from which if indeed is true and a secret sin (which I cannot know) it will be revealed at another day;
Romans 2
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
I would still like you to answer the question.
Apparently you have decided not to do so and that is your right.
HankD