Sins a Christian cannot commit...

[Joe]

Now let's rank the arrows from the farthest to shortest...
MURDER
ADULTERY
GOSSIP
White LIE....
Which one was worst? Adultery
Which one was least? white LIE

Which one measured up to God's perfect standard? NONE...
While they may not equal each other, they all equal unholiness.

True Thanks for explaining it, I understand what you are saying though I didn't quote your whole post.

it does not matter if you commit a white Lie or Murder someone, you are still not going to get the prize. That is why we need Jesus' marksmanship... he hit the bullseye everytime.
Justification is God, the judge, giving us Jesus' prize (righteousness) for winning the victory over sin.

Yes, Jesus blood covers our sins, but it is God/Jesus (our advocate) who decides how far he is willing to reach. Only he knows our heart, so he might reach his arm to us, or he might s-t-r-e-t-c-h his whole body out further to reach us us because we have stepped further away.
Here's my own made up scoreboard to rank sins in relation to salvation.
Each step = a step away from God.

Murder =4 steps
Stealing= 2 steps
Drunkeness 1.75 steps
Adultery= 1.50 steps (-1/4 step for fornication, + 1/4 for homo related)
lie= 1 step
white lie 1/2 step
Gossip 1/4-1 step
Swearing = 1/8 step
Pride 1/4 step
Sloth 1/10 step


The further we walk away from him, the riskier it gets....

Now what keeps us from going out there and sinning all we want..(license to sin)? Our love for Jesus for taking our place... we WANT to serve him. And we WANT to win others to him, and we realize if we go out and sin like crazy, we will not accomplish our goals for Jesus...

I hope this makes sense... We discussed this subject in class a few weeks ago, using the book "Introducing Christian Doctrine" by Millard Erickson.

My point is if one sin will keep us out of Heaven.. .then all will.
None meet God's holy standard.

I see your point that without Christ's blood, one point would keep us out of heaven. With Christ holy sacrifice, we have a chance to live if we walk with God.

Do you understand? Grace is how far he is willing to reach out for us.

THAT is why we needed a savior.. who saved us by GRACE not based on what we have done, will do, or will not do. WE get to Heaven soley on CHRIST. And anything else added is works. That is why I see this as a dangerous theology.. it takes the glory from God and puts it back on us.

Yet must produce some good fruit (good works). It's not a bad word. And it doesn't mean we aren't saved by Grace, what else but through is grace could we be be saved by? I agree when we love the Lord, we want to remain near him. Not step away (sin)
This is why we desire to NOT sin.

The truth is it really doesn't matter whether we agree or not. Personally, I believe you are saved so between us, imo, it's just symantics. To someone else, it's probably a different story.

 

[Brother Bob]

True Thanks for explaining it, I understand what you are saying though I didn't quote your whole post.



Yes, Jesus blood covers our sins, but it is God/Jesus (our advocate) who decides how far he is willing to reach. Only he knows our heart, so he might reach his arm to us, or he might s-t-r-e-t-c-h his whole body out further to reach us us.

Here's my own made up scoreboard to rank sins in relation to salvation.
Each step = a step away from God.

Murder =4 steps
Stealing= 2 steps
Drunkeness 1.75 steps
Adultery= 1.50 steps (-1/4 step for fornication, + 1/4 for homo related)
lie= 1 step
white lie 1/2 step
Gossip 1/4-1 step
Swearing = 1/8 step
Pride 1/4 step
Sloth 1/10 step


The further we walk away from him, the riskier it gets....


I see your point that without Christ's blood, one point would keep us out of heaven. With Christ holy sacrifice, we have a chance to live if we walk with God.

Do you understand? Grace is how far he is willing to reach out for us.


Yet must produce some good fruit (good works). It's not a bad word. And it doesn't mean we aren't saved by Grace, what else but through is grace could we be be saved by? I agree when we love the Lord, we want to remain near him. Not step away (sin)
This is why we desire to NOT sin.

The truth is it really doesn't matter whether we agree or not. Personally, I believe you are saved so between us, imo, it's just symantics. To someone else, it's probably a different story.

Bro Joe;
I wish you would look at what you just said, or someone else.
You yourself have put a limit on how far Jesus will reach. I assume you are talking about Christians.
If the blood covered all your sins until you die, then why the chastisement. If you put a line you can't go any farther, then what is wrong with me using the line Jesus has already put, and that is "shall we sin because we are under the Grace, God forbid".

I use the line Jesus puts and all sins are not the same according to Jesus.
Jesus said, he that hath delivered me unto you hath committed the greater sin.

Why do people believe God can not keep His people?

BBob,

 

[Joe]

Brother Bob I just highlighted some words. Go back ok, then see what you think.
I didn't mean to limit God. Read the part where he may reach out, or he may stretch his whole body out to you.

 

[charles_creech78]

1co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the TEMPLE of the (Holy Ghost) which is (IN YOU), which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? Mr 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the (Holy Ghost) hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mr 3:30 Because they said, He hath an (unclean spirit).
Is the Holy Ghost a unclean thing. Does he dwell in you? Is all of this unclean. Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Are you telling me that you are a Christain and you commit these unclean sin.If God dwells in you what are you saying if you commit these thing? You are saying God is a unclean spirit. And it is called blaspheme. You scare me such that do it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob I just highlighted some words. Go back ok, then see what you think.
I didn't mean to limit God. Read the part where he may reach out, or he may stretch his whole body out to you.

If you are talking about sinners coming to repentance, I will go along with you, if I understand it right.

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

If the blood covered all your sins until you die, then why the chastisement.

Bob, I think you just stumbled onto the real root issue of this whole thread

I and others believe that when we were saved, Christ paid for the sin debt of not only my past sins.. but our future sins as well...

Do you?

Or do you believe that everytime you sin, you must have Christ apply his blood to cover that sin.

That would explain the whole root problem.

It would also explain why you believe if a person dies in an adultress act they will go to Hell... for they didn't have time to repent.

This leads me to this question...
If a person fails to repent of a sin, will they go to Hell?

 

[Joe]

If you are talking about sinners coming to repentance, I will go along with you, if I understand it right.

BBob,

Yes, that is what I mean.

 

[Joe]

1co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the TEMPLE of the (Holy Ghost) which is (IN YOU), which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? Mr 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the (Holy Ghost) hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mr 3:30 Because they said, He hath an (unclean spirit).
Is the Holy Ghost a unclean thing. Does he dwell in you? Is all of this unclean. Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Are you telling me that you are a Christain and you commit these unclean sin.If God dwells in you what are you saying if you commit these thing? You are saying God is a unclean spirit. And it is called blaspheme. You scare me such that do it.

No, I didn't say I commit these sins. I didn't talk about me at all

It's just a chart to show the different levels of sin, and how far away we can walk away from our God. He judges the heart so he may reach out to us, or stretch his whole body to reach us and save us. Note the "may", there is no guarantee. Hope that makes more sense.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I think you just stumbled onto the real root issue of this whole thread

I and others believe that when we were saved, Christ paid for the sin debt of not only my past sins.. but our future sins as well...

Do you?

Or do you believe that everytime you sin, you must have Christ apply his blood to cover that sin.

That would explain the whole root problem.

It would also explain why you believe if a person dies in an adultress act they will go to Hell... for they didn't have time to repent.

This leads me to this question...
If a person fails to repent of a sin, will they go to Hell?

I doubt if you stumbled on anything Tim; I believe it takes the blood to cleanse us from all sin unto death.
It is just that I believe the saved will not sin unto death, but will sin and as Jesus said, if you sin, we have an advocate with God.
He didn't say, if we sin, it is already covered, but we have an advocate with God and these are sins not unto death.

If you sin unto death (if you could) after being saved, you are gone forever.

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Also, if we sin a sin not unto death, He will chastise us. If it were a sin unto death and had been covered by the blood, then we do not deserve chastisement. He would be forgiving us and then punishing us after He said He would never remember those sins against us.
Now, I do not believe that He lied, when he said he would never remember our sins, which are unto death.

Your problem Tim, is you consider spitting on the sidewalk, the same as molesting a child. IMO

BBob, :sleeping_2:

 

[tinytim]

I doubt if you stumbled on anything Tim; I believe it takes the blood to cleanse us from all sin unto death.
It is just that I believe the saved will not sin unto death, but will sin and as Jesus said, if you sin, we have an advocate with God.
He didn't say, if we sin, it is already covered, but we have an advocate with God and these are sins not unto death.

If you sin unto death (if you could) after being saved, you are gone forever.

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Also, if we sin a sin not unto death, He will chastise us. If it were a sin unto death and had been covered by the blood, then we do not deserve chastisement. He would be forgiving us and then punishing us after He said He would never remember those sins against us.
Now, I do not believe that He lied, when he said he would never remember our sins, which are unto death.

BBob,

Then it is clear you don't believe in eternal security.
Is this the official stance of ORBs?

We both believe that God never lies...
But since I know that Jesus and I have a relationship now, and he knows me as a believer, IF he ever says to me in the future, depart from me I never knew you ... HE would be lying... so that will never happen.


Bob, or Charles, are you 100% that when you die you will go to Heaven?
even if it is 5, 10, 15 yrs from now?

I am sure I will. Not based on what I do... or whether or not I repent, but based on the fact that God has already justified me for all eternity.

He died once and for all. I do not have to get saved again, and again.

I am saved...

So, since you consider drunkenness a sin unto death... and since I committed that sin 14 yrs after I was saved, according to your post, you MUST believe that I am not saved now, and will die and go to Hell...

And I say you MUST because of your theological make up....

That is sad...

Rest assured that I am not angry with you all for believing that way...
I feel sorry for you. That must be a miserable life to live.

 

[charles_creech78]

No, I didn't say I commit these sins. I didn't talk about me at all

It's just a chart to show the different levels of sin, and how far away we can walk away from our God. He judges the heart so he may reach out to us, or stretch his whole body to reach us and save us. Note the "may", there is no guarantee. Hope that makes more sense.

It was not to you. It was to them that say these things.

 

[tinytim]

Would someone that is ORB tell me if this belief:

"That you can't sin a major sin after you are saved, or if you do, you are forever lost"

Is the official belief of most ORB churches...

 

[DHK]

Yes, Jesus blood covers our sins, but it is God/Jesus (our advocate) who decides how far he is willing to reach. Only he knows our heart, so he might reach his arm to us, or he might s-t-r-e-t-c-h his whole body out further to reach us us because we have stepped further away.
Here's my own made up scoreboard to rank sins in relation to salvation.
Each step = a step away from God.

Murder =4 steps
Stealing= 2 steps
Drunkeness 1.75 steps
Adultery= 1.50 steps (-1/4 step for fornication, + 1/4 for homo related)
lie= 1 step
white lie 1/2 step
Gossip 1/4-1 step
Swearing = 1/8 step
Pride 1/4 step
Sloth 1/10 step

The further we walk away from him, the riskier it gets....

This is false doctrine, and very close to RCC teaching. God doesn't have degrees of sin. The Bible teaches no such doctrine. If I may, it is a heresy taught by the RCC, from which they develop other heresies such as Purgatory, Indulgences, Penance, etc. Take one false doctrine and see what happens. You spawn from it many others.
There are no degrees of sin with God. Here is what the Bible teaches:

James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

If you lie it is the same as murder.
All sin is a transgression of the law. God doesn't differentiate. Sin is sin. It is breaking his law no matter what law it is. The consequences of some sins may be greater than others. But in all sin is equal in God's eyes. All are a transgression of the law of God.

 

[charles_creech78]

Would someone that is ORB tell me if this belief:

"That you can't sin a major sin after you are saved, or if you do, you are forever lost"

Is the official belief of most ORB churches...

1ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1ti 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

1ti 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and (disobedient), and unto every good work reprobate. Heb 10:26 For if we (sin wilfully) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth( no more sacrifice for sins,)

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under (two or three witnesses: )

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

 

[charles_creech78]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the TEMPLE of the (Holy Ghost) which is (IN YOU), which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? Mr 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the (Holy Ghost) hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mr 3:30 Because they said, He hath an (unclean spirit).
Is the Holy Ghost a unclean thing. Does he dwell in you? Is all of this unclean. Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Are you telling me that you are a Christain and you commit these unclean sin.If God dwells in you what are you saying if you commit these thing? You are saying God is a unclean spirit. And it is called blaspheme. You scare me such that do it.

 

[tinytim]

Charles, a simple yes or no will suffice...
Is this the doctrine of most ORBs?

 

[charles_creech78]

Charles, a simple yes or no will suffice...
Is this the doctrine of most ORBs?

No WE believe they are not saved. They need to truly repent. If you are doing them things there is something wrong with your soul. You never had salvation. Never was born again. The God I believe in can keep you from doing them things.

 

[tinytim]

If you sin unto death (if you could) after being saved, you are gone forever.

So Charles, Would you disagree with Bob here?

 

[tinytim]

No WE believe they are not saved. They need to truly repent. If you are doing them things there is something wrong with your soul. You never had salvation. Never was born again. The God I believe in can keep you from doing them things.

So, if a person sins a sin after they say they are saved, how do they know it was not a sin that will keep them out of Heaven?...

Do you know you will get to go to Heaven?

Or are you saying that every sin you commit is not one that would disqualify yourself from Heaven?

Where is your Bible basis for what sins keep you out of Heaven?

 

[tinytim]

No WE believe they are not saved. They need to truly repent. If you are doing them things there is something wrong with your soul. You never had salvation. Never was born again. The God I believe in can keep you from doing them things.

Since your God can do this, let me know how he does it...

Does he have a force field around you?