Sins a Christian cannot commit...

[DHK]

I have several questions that I would like everyone's opinion on.
1. Where do you draw the line? Can it be cut and dry? A lie is a sin and so is adultry. Why can a Christian commit one and not the other? God is Holy and demands that we are to be Holy. Where is that line?

Jer.17:9 says: The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?
--We don't know the heart, and therefore cannot personally draw the line, except as outlined in 1Cor.5. That is, there must come a time when it is expedient for church discipline. You are right about one thing. Sin is sin no matter how great or small it may seem in man's eyes. It is all the same in God's eyes. It is a transgression of his command. The consequence on earth may be different.

The only sin that will put a man in hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as Saviour.

The Scripture that you are looking for is here:
1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

God has called the believer to live a life of holiness. But no man can live a life of sinlessness.

2. If a person claims to be a Christian, and they do commit adultry or a murder, if they do it one time or two times and then stop, and do not continue in it, does this classify them as an adultress or a murderer? Again, where is the line drawn. Is once enough?

How many murders does one have to commit to be a murderer? Just one.
How many sins does one have to commit to be a sinner? Just one.
However, there is forgiveness with the Lord. That is the teaching of 1John 1:9. He forgives us our sins when we confess them. As far as salvation is concerned we can't lose it. All of our sins are under the blood. If one is born again, how can he be unborn. If he is part of the family of God, would God kick him out of his family? If God gave him eternal life, would eternal turn into temporary? No, those things are impossible and would make God a liar. Thus a believer could never lose his salvation. If he commits a sin he can repent. If he doesn't repent it is possible that a believer live in a backslidden condition such as Lot did. We must allow God to judge. We cannot judge the heart of man. We must go on the testimony of that man after examining his testimony. Every person is different.

Friends, I am asked these questions and I am interested in your input. My feelings are this: I would have no confidence in a person that performs these acts as a Christian. But I am unable to draw the line. I view a sin as a sin and we are all unworthy.

It is possible or even probable that a person that continues to live a life of sin is not truly saved. Even then we cannot say for sure. God alone knows the heart. Again my example is Lot. God declared him just and righteous. Much of the time we have to leave the individual in God's hands, and let him do the judging. If he is truly saved, God will chastise him according to Hebrews chapter 12.

 

[Outsider]

Brother Charles,
Thanks for your input, but the reason I ask is this?
The Bible teaches that Liars will have their part in the lake of fire too.

We make the difference between a lie and adultry as maybe we should. But if one act of adultry makes you an adultress then one lie makes you a liar, right?

I challenge people not to argue but to learn. This is what I am wanting to know. Why do we draw that line wherever we decide to draw it? Truth is, I have caught several people in lies just by reading their posts from one thread to another. What does this mean?

I am really trying to learn here. As I have told you (Brother Charles) before, I am closer to your belief than the other, but I am still not convinced totally.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Charles,
Thanks for your input, but the reason I ask is this?
The Bible teaches that Liars will have their part in the lake of fire too.

We make the difference between a lie and adultry as maybe we should. But if one act of adultry makes you an adultress then one lie makes you a liar, right?

I challenge people not to argue but to learn. This is what I am wanting to know. Why do we draw that line wherever we decide to draw it? Truth is, I have caught several people in lies just by reading their posts from one thread to another. What does this mean?

I am really trying to learn here. As I have told you (Brother Charles) before, I am closer to your belief than the other, but I am still not convinced totally.

Outsider; do you believe a Christian has to lie?

BBob,

 

[Outsider]

DHK,
Thank you. I really enjoy the way you put it. I know there is no falling away (Once saved always saved).

I have always struggled with the lie/adultry issue and have found no clear cut answer. Maybe I will never find one.

God has called the believer to live a life of holiness. But no man can live a life of sinlessness.

If you would, I would like for you to explain your thoughts out a little more for me.

How many sins does one have to commit to be a sinner? Just one.

I really like this. Never thought of this one :godisgood:

 

[Outsider]

Outsider; do you believe a Christian has to lie?

BBob,

No. I believe a Christian has the ability to live their natural life without doing it.

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK,
Thank you. I really enjoy the way you put it. I know there is no falling away (Once saved always saved).

I have always struggled with the lie/adultry issue and have found no clear cut answer. Maybe I will never find one.

If you would, I would like for you to explain your thoughts out a little more for me.

I really like this. Never thought of this one :godisgood:

Outsider what would you think, if I told you that your churches would exclude anyone for lying?

BBob,

 

[charles_creech78]

Thats my question? Forgive me if I am not following you, but I don't follow. Please explain?

What make you a murder. When you go out and kill someone. It takes you one time to kill someone to be called a murder. Now do you get what I am saying.

 

[Outsider]

Brother Bob,

Outsider what would you think, if I told you that your churches would exclude anyone for lying?

When I was in another association, I was the clerk for a while. I was ablr to read old minutes from years ago. I am sure we could tell stories that would shock many people on this forum on why some people got excluded.

 

[Outsider]

Brother Charles,

What make you a murder. When you go out and kill someone. It takes you one time to kill someone to be called a murder. Now do you get what I am saying.

Gotcha now. I am a little slow sometimes :tonofbricks:

 

[charles_creech78]

Brother Bob,

When I was in another association, I was the clerk for a while. I was ablr to read old minutes from years ago. I am sure we could tell stories that would shock many people on this forum on why some people got excluded.

What do you think a church is. I hope you believe it is the born again Christains. Do you think we cast them out because we are high minded?1ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

1ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1ti 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

1ti 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and (disobedient), and unto every good work reprobate. Heb 10:26 For if we (sin wilfully) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth( no more sacrifice for sins,)

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under (two or three witnesses: )

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

 

[Outsider]

Brother Charles,
I have been in the ORB for 13 years. I love them. I feel our walk is a close one with the Lord. I have preached for 8 years and served as an officer in different ways. I love the ORB and its ways.

What do you think a church is. I hope you believe it is the born again Christains. Do you think we cast them out because we are high minded?

I do not know how long you have been in the ORB, but I will PM you on this.

 

[charles_creech78]

Brother Charles,
I have been in the ORB for 13 years. I love them. I feel our walk is a close one with the Lord. I have preached for 8 years and served as an officer in different ways. I love the ORB and its ways.

I do not know how long you have been in the ORB, but I will PM you on this.

I just want to know one thing from you. Is it just to exclude a member for adultery or murder.

 

[Outsider]

I just want to know one thing from you. Is it just to exclude a member for adultery or murder.

The church? No. Ofcourse not.
I appologize if thats the impression I was given?

 

[Joe]

I have bolded the part of your post that makes absolutely no sense to me. Let's stay away from soap-opera theatrics, here.

I will agree with you that Charles has been quite gracious and kind...more so than you, I might add. But if...if there is a problem between Charles and me (to my knowledge there isn't), shouldn't that be between Charles and me? Why insert yourself into the equation?

I believe in apologizing for one's wrongdoing. But I also believe in not cheapening's one apology by apologziing when it is not necessary. Perhaps you'd like to point out where my statements have warranted an apology.

Furthermore, I will say I hold no ill will towards you. I hate it that you're so upset. But that's your choice to be so. I'm fine, and hope you will be as well.

To that end, I feel it necessary to publish the text of the PM I sent you earlier, explaining many of my thoughts in this thread. You claimed I offered no Scripture for my position (which, after reading below, all will see is not the case). I will continue to defend what I see as unfounded claims that suggest I look for ways to give people a "license to sin." (I don't). Sorry that you take it so personally. I just want people to understand what I see as a Biblical position.

Now, if you disagree that's fine. If it makes you mad, that's OK too. But now, at least, the entirety of my position is understood.

Have a blessed day, Bro Bob. :wavey:

Brother rbell,

I hope you and Brother Bob can get things worked out. You are brothers in Christ.
This is a touchy subject so it's understandable for emotions to run high.

I know you want your position understood. Whether you feel justified or not, posting info from private pm's without the consent of the other involved is lowering your own personal standards at your own expense. Even if brother bob called you a murderer, I don't see justification. This pertains to Mods/Admins or posters. It's a standard set for yourself that you do not cross. This type of stuff is contagous.
Lowering the bar is allowing another person to have too much control over you.

Better to yell, name call, or whatever but not break confidence. This behavior is contagous. Private information in pm,'s or in private forums need to remain private for the common good of everyone.

A few times I had to just let it go, and look bad on the bb. Chose not to defend myself because what others think of me is just not that important. When it is, I know it's me who is suffering. Others may have done the same for me, allowing my arrogant behavior at the expense of ending it.
So ending it in another's favor is often for my own benefit, whether it is on here or at church. Hope you understand...

 

[charles_creech78]

The church? No. Ofcourse not.
I appologize if thats the impression I was given?

So know you can see the diffrents if they did it one time or not. You can't cause someone to be lost if they are already lost. I think you get what I am saying now. And I mean what the church does.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, I offer my hand to rbell for peace and I am willing to put everything in the past. I do not handle well being called a liar or I do not like to be talked down to. If we can deal with these matters, then I am willing to move on in peace.

BBob,

 

[Outsider]

So know you can see the diffrents if they did it one time or not. You can't cause someone to be lost if they are already lost. I think you get what I am saying now. And I mean what the church does.

I do understand what you are saying. I also know why the church does it. But my question still remains. Look at the PM I sent you. Think about it, don't give a quick answer and then reply. Then you will understand what I am saying.

It is an awsome responsibility to exclude someone from fellowship. You better make sure they are what you say they are and you better have followed the proper steps in doing so. Because I wonder how angry the Lord would be with someone who excluded one of His children from fellowship.

I'm saying, you better be right 100% of the time in that decision and in the fashion it is done.

 

[Joe]

Well, I offer my hand to rbell for peace and I am willing to put everything in the past. I do not handle well being called a liar or I do not like to be talked down to. If we can deal with these matters, then I am willing to move on in peace.

BBob,

Sounds good
It's easy to go there in a heated arguement, but imo, there are very few liars. It's usually miscomunication.
I have told two posters their post was full of lies (one lies of the medical community, and another I think was government lies all found on many websites). I also said they were deluded or something similar, but they took it as I called them a liar. I felt they were passing the lies on, but didn't word it that way. Last night, I put the shoe on the other foot and realized if someone said that to me, I would be mad

 

[charles_creech78]

I do understand what you are saying. I also know why the church does it. But my question still remains. Look at the PM I sent you. Think about it, don't give a quick answer and then reply. Then you will understand what I am saying.

It is an awsome responsibility to exclude someone from fellowship. You better make sure they are what you say they are and you better have followed the proper steps in doing so. Because I wonder how angry the Lord would be with someone who excluded one of His children from fellowship.

I'm saying, you better be right 100% of the time in that decision and in the fashion it is done.

I understand that 100%. I know 100% that God him self will manifest it to.

 

[Outsider]

I understand that 100%. I know 100% that God him self will manifest it to.

Thank you for your honesty.
I am not willing to say I know that much.
I will follow Mat 18 in every case.