Sins a Christian cannot commit...

Good morning Tim. Heres what I am thinking...

It is possible for anyone who has committed any sin to be saved? Here's an example

Imo, we can't lump all sins together because each one is at a different level, gluttony likely being the lesser sin one can commit.

If we look at each sin with the examples in the bible, and what the Lord has said about each one, the time period, and apply it to the current exact situation, the person may or may not be saved.

EXAMPLE:

1. Let's say a guy was in a car committing adultery. The female says "Someone just drove by". Right then, he has an out. She will understand why he put on the breaks, and wishes to stop without feeling as obligated to her.

2. Now duplicate that scinereo except a car didn't drive by. It would be totally out of his own willpower (it appears) to put the breaks on, and now he owes more of an explanation to her for stopping because she is going to expect it. Maybe that car driving by was God's way out?

Which one is more likely to be saved?

Consider these verses

"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 (NIV)
Here it is again...

“But remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you will not give in to it.” 
1 Corinthians 10:13

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

Both men are Christians who accepted the Lord as their Savor and are backsliding. Both committed adultery. Both men and their women died right when they started the car to leave where they were parked. It blew up, factory default.

Brother Bob feels the guy is in hell.
You feel he is in Heaven (if he really was a Christian)
I feel it is possible he is in heaven, (if he really was a Christian)but don't know.
Others will say a Christian couldn't do that in the first place...

I have to go back to work now, but will check back later...

 

Hi Brother Bob,
I have questions about this statement. Not for the sake of argument but I need an explannation

My biggest problem is that I have never been able to sneak by even one day with out some sort of sin. Of course I ask for forgiveness each time I sin and I'm ashamed that I am unable to be with out sin for very long. I would like very much to be able to not sin any more. I've prayed about it and the times when I have gone the longest of times with out it, I find pride with in my miserable self.
The truth is I have known many Pastors and evanglist in my life and to tell you the truth as good as men as they were they still were not with out sin.
One pastor told me I wasn't saved if I still sinned and another told me that as long as I'm on this earth I will sin because it's the nature of my flesh to do so.
I haven't given up, I still pursue a sinnless life. You asked Tim if it was wrong to to teach it's Ok if we fall back in sin. Isn't it as long as we remember to ask for forgiveness?. Will one sin cost us our Salvation?
One pastor told me that we shouldn't live in sin. Although he didn't know how to answer this question. When we do sin aren't we living in that sin at that moment?.
I fight against the sin in my life every single day, and sometimes I get discouraged. I love the Lord I really do. I want to be what He wants of me.
Since I first discoverd that I wasn't saved by anything I've done but by the faith of Jesus Christ. It's helped me to know that my sin what ever it is, is coverd by the righteousness of Christ. On judgement day all the Judge will see is the righteousness of His own Son. I have over come all the sin in my life through Christ.
MB

 

MB; Those are good honest questions and I am assuming that when you say you sin, that it is not the sins which will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Apostle Paul was exactly like you. He desired to be perfect, and so do I, but we will never be perfect in the flesh because we have the thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, which God will not remove. Why? Well that messenger, which causes us to commit sins which are not unto death (as Jesus said), but these sins keep us humble and always praying to the Lord. He said to continue in prayer, but for our temptation, He will make a way for our escape.

Yes, we sin, but I have never went back in the world of adultery, lying, stealing, coveting my neighbors wife, but yet I sin daily. Thank God, He also provided a way for those sins, and that is chastisement and He is our advocate with God, when we commit those sins not unto death.

When Jesus said "Father, I have lost none, saving the son of perdition", tells us that Jesus is always conscious of not losing one of His children, but will chastise us when we do wrong.

If you have other questions, please ask me and I will with the help of God, try and answer them.

The church is not the world and we do not live like the world.

BBob,

 

Without taking Scripture out of context show me where the Bible says this. I will show you where the Bible says that you are wrong.

First: The Bible teaches eternal security, whereas you teach a religion of works. The Bible teaches that the gift of God is eternal life, not temporal life. If, for any reason, (including adultery) I would lose my salvation eternal would no longer be eternal. It would only be temporal, and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar. Are you calling him a liar because he is unable to keep his promise of giving one eternal life just because a believer may fall into the sin of adultery. Remember how Jesus defined adultery--just to look upon a woman to lust after her in his heart.

Second: Paul called the one in 1Cor.5:1-5 a brother, and yet he had not only committed adultery; it was incest. It was a sin so terrrible and immoral that it was not so mentioned among the Gentiles. It was a horrid wicked sin. And yet he was a member of the church at Corinth, a brother in the Lord.
The first act that the Corinthian believers had to do was exercise Biblical discipline and put "this brother" out of the church.
Later "this brother" repented of his sin. Then the Corinthian church were obligated to bring back "this brother" into the church. At no time is there any indication that "this brother" lost his salvation. It may be that he lost his fellowship with God during the time that he had sinned. But he never lost his salvation.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."--none!

Paul called him a brother. If he had died before he had repented he would have gone to heaven. Why? He already had eternal life. God does not take away that gift. If God would have done that, then God would be a liar, and Christianity would be a religion of works. The grace of God would all be in vain. The blood of Christ would not be sufficient to cover all our sins, even the sins of adultery. We have to work for those ones, for the blood of Christ can't cover those ones according to your theology.

 

Ok DHK what was the point of this man repenting then. Or being cast out of the church. What you just said if he didn't repent and died he still go to heaven. So what is the point of him repenting then. Do you even know what repenting is?

 

He wasn't repenting in order to be saved. He had already done that.
He was, as a Christian, repenting of one and only one sin--that of his immoral act--the very one for which he was disciplined out of the church, his incest. This has nothing to do with his salvation.

BTW, you need to repent of every sin that you commit every day of your life, including the false statements you make on this board that you do not sin. Read again 1John 1:8,10, and then go to the Lord with 1John 1:9 in mind. Keep in mind that the Holy Spirit put 1John 1:9 in the Bible for a purpose.

 

As far at the one in Corth who was cast out and then repented, understand that he repented while he was "out", and then they took him back by the door.

Also, it says to continue to entreat such a one as a brother.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 6:

10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Depends on who you are serving DHK:

BBob,

 

Go look at my post I never said I do not sin.

 

You explained none of that Scripture in relation to the situation at Corinth. I can copy and paste Scripture too. That is not hard Bob. It is easy to do. The situation in 1Cor.5 still stands. Paul called him a brother. He was saved. He committed incest. He was a believer when he did it. He was a believer when he repented. He was a believer in between times.

 

Go look at my post from yesterday. I quoted two passages of yours where you directly said that you do not sin. Have you changed your mind since then?

 

Prove he was a believer DHK; Just because he was called a brother??

1 Corth 5:
8: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


2 Thes;
14] And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
[15] Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Will this do DHK?


BBob,

 

That proves my point perfectly. He was a brother. Admonish him as a brother, not an enemy. He wasn't an unsaved person, that is an enemy of the cross as all unsaved persons are. He was a brother that had fallen in sin, but had not lost his salvation. Believers do not lose their salvation. They are eternally secured by the hand of God.

Good verse.

 

I also believe that God gives us an escape route.. not just for the big sins, but also for the small sins... But do we take that route?

What if we don't take that route?
Are we saved?


AND I for one do not lump all sins together as if they equal each other....

One reason is the fact that the lost will be judged for their sins at the Great White throne Judgement... and then cast into Hell...

I think Murder, is much worse than lying to your wife about how nice her dress is.

I think Rape is much worse than driving by a car that is broken down, and refusing to help them...


BUT no matter what the sin, they all fall short of God's holiness...

I really wish there was a way to post a visual illustration to this, but I can't figure out how....

Theologically speaking the words for sin are Harmartia, which means missing the mark... like shooting an arrow at a bullseye and it coming up short...
The other word, Parabasis, means transgression... or overshooting the bullseye...

You see, theologically speaking, anything but hitting the bullseye is sin...
If we shoot short or shoot too far, it is still not hitting the bullseye.

God requires perfect holiness... a bullseye everytime.

So, let's apply this...

You are at a bowshoot... you have 4 shots
Your first arrow goes 20 yards over the bulleye and lands in the adultery area... You have just transgressed (Parabasis) the bullseye... you overshot it.

Your second arrow falls 15 yards short of the bullseye... and lands in the gossip zone.... You have just come short (harmartia) of the glory of the bullseye...

Your third arrow really goes off course, and it goes over the bullseye by 35 yrds.. and lands in the murder area... This time you transgressed big time... it may not be as bad a shot as your arrow that landed in the adultery area... but it is still a miss.

Your fourth arrow lands just 1 inch short of the bulleye... and lands in the "just told your wife she doesn't look fat in that new dress she bought" area.... it is closer to the bullseye, but still not good enough.


Now let's rank the arrows from the farthest to shortest...
MURDER
ADULTERY
GOSSIP
White LIE....

Which one was worst? Adultery
Which one was least? white LIE

Which one measured up to God's perfect standard? NONE...
While they may not equal each other, they all equal unholiness.

So it does not matter if you commit a white Lie or Murder someone, you are still not going to get the prize.

That is why we need Jesus' marksmanship... he hit the bullseye everytime.

Justification is God, the judge, giving us Jesus' prize (righteousness) for winning the victory over sin.

Now what keeps us from going out there and sinning all we want..(license to sin)? Our love for Jesus for taking our place... we WANT to serve him. And we WANT to win others to him, and we realize if we go out and sin like crazy, we will not accomplish our goals for Jesus...

I hope this makes sense... We discussed this subject in class a few weeks ago, using the book "Introducing Christian Doctrine" by Millard Erickson.

My point is if one sin will keep us out of Heaven.. .then all will.
None meet God's holy standard.

THAT is why we needed a savior.. who saved us by GRACE not based on what we have done, will do, or will not do.

WE get to Heaven soley on CHRIST. And anything else added is works.
That is why I see this as a dangerous theology.. it takes the glory from God and puts it back on us.

 

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:


They called every one of them brothers, but they were false brethren.

This proves my point DHK;

I have called several brothers in my time, who are no longer with us, some of them just plain drunks and adulterers.

BBob,

 

Amen brother Bob

 

Well, the old man has to nap.....

BBob,

 

I hope you didn't eat something before you lay down!!!!

You might be accused of gluttony!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Have a good rest! :wavey:

 

Thanks Tim......

 

Hi Brother Bob;
I gather from your answer that you believe that to sin a sin unto death means your are once again lost. Does this mean no more Grace?
You see those sins that are deadly I have been guilty of since I came to Christ. Especially adultry with in my own thoughts. Seems once a man is offered an adultress relationship with an attractive lady that while he may control himself outwardly, Inwardly he has already commited the adultry with her in his thoughts. It only takes a split second. once you have imagined it, you've sinned.
The whole thing wasn't about me being irresistable, but instead was her attempt at manipulating me. I know I have to be careful about this sort of thing but it's not as uncommon as one might think.
Like most of the sin I have commited they are with in my own mind. I'm not proud of this but, it's true. There is such a fine line between the temptation and the sin at times that it's hard to tell where the temptation leaves off and the lust begins.
I have to disagree with you on your theology because of this;
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Another that disagrees with you is Paul;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It puzzles me how we can loose something that is kept by the power of God. That something, being the righteousness of Christ the faith of Christ. and most important our Salvation which depended entirely on Christ for me to have and to keep.
Is sin as powerful as God? Didn't His Son over come death?
Yet I'm wretched. The only way I can explain this is that same way Paul explained it.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
MB