So Jesus is not fully God?

[Yeshua1]

I have been a Christian since 1962. My first study Bible is The Scofield Reference Bible and concordance the Oxford Cyclopedic Concordance. In 1968 and on I made extensive use of the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to do careful topical Bible study.. Now the first creed in the mid 90's I looked at taught the false doctrine of the Son being eternally begotten. Utter nonsense. It is the fruit of the error of Arianism.

The Son not eternal?

 

[1689Dave]

I have been a Christian since 1962. My first study Bible is The Scofield Reference Bible and concordance the Oxford Cyclopedic Concordance. In 1968 and on I made extensive use of the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to do careful topical Bible study.. Now the first creed in the mid 90's I looked at taught the false doctrine of the Son being eternally begotten. Utter nonsense. It is the fruit of the error of Arianism.

The creeds say differently. God is eternal. Jesus is God. You seem to like incarnate sonship (God changes) instead of eternal sonship (eternally begotten before time). So there was never a time when the Son was not. Also, Dispensationalism has nothing to do with historic Christianity and everything to do with the Jesuits. Who tried to deceive protestants into thinking the Papacy is not Antichrist.

 

[Yeshua1]

The creeds say you are a heretic. God is eternal. Jesus is God. You seem to like incarnate sonship instead of eternal sonship. Also, Dispensationalism has nothing to do with historic Christianity and everything to do with the Jesuites who tried to deceive protestants into thinking the Papacy is not Antichrist.

Seems to hold that Jesus became the Sin at the Incarnation!

 

[37818]

God became the man Jesus!

You believe in a changable God.

I believe the Son of God, the Word became the man Jesus. And God did not change.

 

[37818]

The creeds say differently.

The creeds say differently than what?

 

[37818]

I still don’t understand the point you are trying to make, but I’ll leave you to it.

God is not a man.
God does not change.
The man Jesus Christ is both as someone other than God as well as being the one and the same God as His Father.

 

[Yeshua1]

You believe in a changable God.

I believe the Son of God, the Word became the man Jesus. And God did not change.

The Son of God, the Word, is God!

 

[37818]

The Son of God, the Word, is God!

Think!
The Word is twice said to be "with the God." And that Greek phrase is used 20 times in the New Testament.
How is the Word to be God if the Word is "with the God" and the others (those 17 times in the New Testament) are not God? The Greek, ". . . προς τον θεον"

 

[Yeshua1]

Think!
The Word is twice said to be "with the God." And that Greek phrase is used 19 times in the New Testament.
How is the Word to be God if the Word is "with the God" and the others (those 17 times in the New Testament) are not God? The Greek, ". . . προς τον θεον"

God eternally has existed as the Father, the Word/Son, and the Holy Spirit!

 

[37818]

προς τον θεον

John 1:1
John 1:2
John 13:5
Acts of the Apostles 4:24
Acts of the Apostles 12:5
Acts of the Apostles 24:16
Romans 4:2
Romans 5:1
Romans 10:1
Romans 15:30
2 Corinthians 3:4
2 Corinthians 13:7
Philippians 4:6
1 Thessalonians 1:8
1 Thessalonians 1:9
Hebrews 2:17
Hebrews 5:1
1 John 3:21
Revelation 12:5
Revelation 13:6

 

[37818]

God eternally has existed as the Father, the Word/Son, and the Holy Spirit!

That does not change the fact that the Word is twice said to be "with the God." . . . προς τον θεον
And that phrase is used of those who are not God. What does that mean?

 

[37818]

The asnwer why the Word is said to be twice προς τον θεον has to do with as to why God is a Trinity. @Yeshua1 what is the answer?

 

[Yeshua1]

That does not change the fact that the Word is twice said to be "with the God." . . . προς τον θεον
And that phrase is used of those who are not God. What does that mean?

John used Greek Grammar to indicate to us that there were being spoken of 2 persons who were both Yahweh, but also were not the same Person!

 

[Yeshua1]

The asnwer why the Word is said to be twice προς τον θεον has to do with as to why God is a Trinity. @Yeshua1 what is the answer?

2 Persons mentioned there, both were and are Yahweh, and Jesus is not the Father!

 

[37818]

John used Greek Grammar to indicate to us that there were being spoken of 2 persons who were both Yahweh, but also were not the same Person!

Does that mean not being the same Yahweh not being the same Persons? To be with the God is to be with Yahweh. Why or why not?

 

[canadyjd]

That does not change the fact that the Word is twice said to be "with the God." . . . προς τον θεον
And that phrase is used of those who are not God. What does that mean?

John is demonstrating the 3-fold equality of the Word and God in John 1, which shows exactly the opposite of what you are saying. The Word is God: The same God revealed throughout OT history is the Word.

There is temporal equality:

“In the beginning was the Word...” Same language as Gen 1: During the “time” when only God existed... the Word existed.

There is positional equality:

“The Word was with God....” Literally “face to face”: When only God existed, the Word was face to face with God. Only God has such a position.

There is equality of essence:

“The Word was God”: Could be read as “The Word was deity or The Word was Divine” Everything that makes up the essence of God.... that is what the Word is.

I hope that helps

peace to you

 

[37818]

2 Persons mentioned there, both were and are Yahweh, and Jesus is not the Father!

The Father is the true God (aka Yahweh) per Jesus, John 17:3. John 20:17. John 13:16.

 

[37818]

John is demonstrating the 3-fold equality of the Word and God in John 1, which shows exactly the opposite of what you are saying. The Word is God: The same God revealed throughout OT history is the Word.

There is temporal equality:

“In the beginning was the Word...” Same language as Gen 1: During the “time” when only God existed... the Word existed.

There is positional equality:

“The Word was with God....” Literally “face to face”: When only God existed, the Word was face to face with God. Only God has such a position.

There is equality of essence:

“The Word was God”: Could be read as “The Word was deity or The Word was Divine” Everything that makes up the essence of God.... that is what the Word is.

I hope that helps

peace to you

So all those other 17 references "with God" are "face to face?"

προς τον θεον

John 1:1
John 1:2
John 13:5
Acts of the Apostles 4:24
Acts of the Apostles 12:5
Acts of the Apostles 24:16
Romans 4:2
Romans 5:1
Romans 10:1
Romans 15:30
2 Corinthians 3:4
2 Corinthians 13:7
Philippians 4:6
1 Thessalonians 1:8
1 Thessalonians 1:9
Hebrews 2:17
Hebrews 5:1
1 John 3:21
Revelation 12:5
Revelation 13:6

 

[canadyjd]

So all those other 17 references "with God" are "face to face?"

I’d have to look at the context of each passage.

The John 1 passage is clearly establishing that the Word is our eternal God; and also furthers our understand of the three persons of the Godhead.

John also furthers our understanding of the incarnation. The Word, God Himself, became flesh. He added the essence of humanity to His Deity.

We know the Word was not a created being (like an Angel), but is God.

peace to you

 

[37818]

I’d have to look at the context of each passage.

The John 1 passage is clearly establishing that the Word is our eternal God; and also furthers our understand of the three persons of the Godhead.

John also furthers our understanding of the incarnation. The Word, God Himself, became flesh. He added the essence of humanity to His Deity.

We know the Word was not a created being (like an Angel), but is God.

peace to you

The Greek phrase "προς τον θεον" indicates someone other than God.
And it is twice said of the Word. And the Word also "was God."