So why do you American Baptists hate Obama so much?

[OldRegular]

Many Americans who are Baptist, especially SBC'ers did not support Obama and many of these folk do seem to hate Obama. But you must remember what the S stands for in SBC. This feeling of S is gradually becoming a smaller s as the older generation dies off and the younger generation matures. The old racial prejudices are not nearly as strong in the young as in the elderly. Sadly such prejudice is still alive in some preachers. I had a SBC preacher, who lives in Atlanta, a middle aged fellow, tell me last year that he would never ride the subway in Atlanta because too many African Americans [he did not use this term] ride the subway. I had ridden the Atlanta subway and found it a great way to get around and from and to the airport.

It appears from the above post and from an earlier one by Crabtownboy that prejudice is alive and well on this Forum. I invite those who disagree to visit the thread Are there Catholics and Orthodox that are practicing and saved? on the Other Denominartions Forum where some are perfectly willing to condem all these people to hell.

But I digress. It appears that Crabtownboy harbors some prejudice or bias towards Southerners. I don’t know why since he claims to have been raised in the South. I was raised in the segregated South [Virginia] and perhaps have been around longer than Crabtownboy. I believe though the South was segregated there was much less racial animosity in the South than in many northern cities. I recall the race riots in Detroit during WWII. During the Civil Rights movement most of the really big riots occurred in the northern cities. Was that the result of prejudice? I don’t know. Is there still racial animosoty in the South? Yes! But it exists among both black and white. Is there racial animosoty in the rest of the country? Yes! All one has to do is watch the news but it exists among both black and white.

I will say right now that I doubt that there is anyone who is free of prejudice of one sort or another, and that includes Christians. Liberals will piously clain that they are except when it comes to hating conservatives. I also expect that there is a little racial prejudice among all of us, red, yellow, black, brown, and white. I have found that when I view people as individuals, rather than as a group, there is much less tendency for racial prejudice.

I have indicated elsewhere my disdain for obama. Anyone who believes that it is acceptable to slaughter unborn and just born children is deserving of hate because that person is the epitomy of evil and a willing or unwilling servant of Satan. What is the difference between obama and "killer diller" of Kansas? Someone please tell me.

May I simply state what GOD states in Proverbs 6:16ff

These six things doth the Lord hate: .... hands that shed innocent blood.

God hates hands that shed innocent blood. Those hands represent a person! Is anything more innocent than an unborn or just born child? NO!

In closing I am going to steal a post by Rippon.

"It's not a commandment as such, but David apparently had righteous hatred in Psalm 139:21,22.

Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies."

And David was a man after GOD's own heart!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Who was it that Christ came down hard on? The religious bigots of his day, the Parasees, the most fundamental of the fundamentalists of Israel in his day. Fair warning to all of us.

This is hogwash. Christ came down on the Pharisees because they denied his deity. They judged people's giving, like you have. They thought they could follow some scripture, and throw some out, like liberals do.

Religious bigots, my foot. It's the democrat left that has used scripture to deny blacks the right to vote, has denied scripture in saying abortion isn't murder, has told us the death penalty is null & void, and several other biblical abominations. Don't tell me how hard it is to apply Christ's teachings. His teachings don't mean a hill of beans without his death & ressurrection.

I have a challenge for you, look up all the times the word "hate" appears in scripture, get out an exhaustive concordance, and find out what the original Hebrew, & Greek words really mean. Scripture does NOT teach us to ne pacifists. And Christ did NOT die to bring peace to a world that rejects him.

 

[OldRegular]

Agreed.

To take the phrase "abhor that which is evil" and use it to justify hatred is an enormous stretch (and IMO misuse) of Scripture.

Well rbell, we are still entitled to express our opinion and still entitled to be wrong. You need to read Rippon's earlier post, quoting "the man after GOD's own heart", King David.

 

[corndogggy]

Can you cite even one verse in either the OT or NT, that ever commands us to hate anyone, on a personal basis? I have not seen such. I will admit that I could have missed one, however, and will be glad to acknowledge such, if I have, if you can show such.

Not exactly commands, the one in psalms is the closest it gets to telling individuals to hate, but there are plenty of examples of God hating individuals and not just the sin.


Psalms 139:19-22
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Malachi 1:3 "I hated Esau"

Psalm 5:5 "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 11:5 "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Proverbs 6:16, 19 "These six things doth the LORD hate... a false witness that speaketh lies"

Leviticus 26:30 "I will ... cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you"

Deuteronomy 32:19-20 "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them ... for they are ... children in whom is no faith."

Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Hosea 9:15 "I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings. "

Luke 14:26 - "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

 

[OldRegular]

Sadly such prejudice is still alive in some preachers. I had a SBC preacher, who lives in Atlanta, a middle aged fellow, tell me last year that he would never ride the subway in Atlanta because too many African Americans [he did not use this term] ride the subway. I had ridden the Atlanta subway and found it a great way to get around and from and to the airport.

If I am not mistaken another so-called preacher [and not a Southern Baptist] who is black stated that, if he were driving a cab, he would not pick up a passenger in certain black sections of a city.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Not exactly commands, the one in psalms is the closest it gets to telling individuals to hate, but there are plenty of examples of God hating individuals and not just the sin.


Psalms 139:19-22
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Malachi 1:3 "I hated Esau"

Psalm 5:5 "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 11:5 "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Proverbs 6:16, 19 "These six things doth the LORD hate... a false witness that speaketh lies"

Leviticus 26:30 "I will ... cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you"

Deuteronomy 32:19-20 "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them ... for they are ... children in whom is no faith."

Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Hosea 9:15 "I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings. "

Luke 14:26 - "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Are any of us God? I don't think so and I surely would never take that risk. What is right for God may not be right for us. As I said, I cannot find anything in any of Christ's teachings that says it is permissible for me to hate anyone.

Also I notice that all your references are to Old Testament writings, even the Romans one is quoting the OT. We are now under the New Testament, grace and Christ's teaching. To selectively pick OT scripture and ignore Christ's teachings seems intellectually dishonest to me.

Old Regular wrote: It appears that Crabtownboy harbors some prejudice or bias towards Southerners. I don’t know why since he claims to have been raised in the South. I was raised in the segregated South [Virginia] and perhaps have been around longer than Crabtownboy. I believe though the South was segregated there was much less racial animosity in the South than in many northern cities. I recall the race riots in Detroit during WWII. During the Civil Rights movement most of the really big riots occurred in the northern cities. Was that the result of prejudice? I don’t know. Is there still racial animosoty in the South? Yes! But it exists among both black and white. Is there racial animosoty in the rest of the country? Yes! All one has to do is watch the news but it exists among both black and white.

I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. I have no idea how old you are, not that I see that has much to do with it. The entire country was much more racist when I was a kid than now ... and thank God for that. When I was in the Army the most racist soldiers I knew were from the North, but they were not a majority.

I have no prejudice against the South unless decisions coming from experience are considered prejudice once taken.


Have a blessed day.

 

[historyb]

It appears from the above post and from an earlier one by Crabtownboy that prejudice is alive and well on this Forum. I invite those who disagree to visit the thread Are there Catholics and Orthodox that are practicing and saved? on the Other Denominations Forum where some are perfectly willing to condemn all these people to hell.

But I digress. It appears that Crabtownboy harbors some prejudice or bias towards Southerners. I don’t know why since he claims to have been raised in the South. I was raised in the segregated South [Virginia] and perhaps have been around longer than Crabtownboy. I believe though the South was segregated there was much less racial animosity in the South than in many northern cities. I recall the race riots in Detroit during WWII. During the Civil Rights movement most of the really big riots occurred in the northern cities. Was that the result of prejudice? I don’t know. Is there still racial animosoty in the South? Yes! But it exists among both black and white. Is there racial animosoty in the rest of the country? Yes! All one has to do is watch the news but it exists among both black and white.

I will say right now that I doubt that there is anyone who is free of prejudice of one sort or another, and that includes Christians. Liberals will piously clain that they are except when it comes to hating conservatives. I also expect that there is a little racial prejudice among all of us, red, yellow, black, brown, and white. I have found that when I view people as individuals, rather than as a group, there is much less tendency for racial prejudice.

I have indicated elsewhere my disdain for obama. Anyone who believes that it is acceptable to slaughter unborn and just born children is deserving of hate because that person is the epitomy of evil and a willing or unwilling servant of Satan. What is the difference between obama and "killer diller" of Kansas? Someone please tell me.

May I simply state what GOD states in Proverbs 6:16ff

These six things doth the Lord hate: .... hands that shed innocent blood.

God hates hands that shed innocent blood. Those hands represent a person! Is anything more innocent than an unborn or just born child? NO!

In closing I am going to steal a post by Rippon.

"It's not a commandment as such, but David apparently had righteous hatred in Psalm 139:21,22.

Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies."

And David was a man after GOD's own heart!

OldRegular you have great post, some are so self righteous that they are willing to deny the very words of God to hate evil. Obama by his actions is evil.

Christians hate their own and attack them often.

 

[corndogggy]

Also I notice that all your references are to Old Testament writings, even the Romans one is quoting the OT. We are now under the New Testament, grace and Christ's teaching. To selectively pick OT scripture and ignore Christ's teachings seems intellectually dishonest to me.

It was an answer to a question that specifically asked for passages commanding us to hate even if it was in the old testament. To ignore this context seems intellecutally dishonest to me.

 

[corndogggy]

I cannot find anything in any of Christ's teachings that says it is permissible for me to hate anyone.

Jesus said his disciples had to hate their mom, dad, wife, children, brothers, and sisters.

 

[Crabtownboy]

It was an answer to a question that specifically asked for passages commanding us to hate even if it was in the old testament. To ignore this context seems intellecutally dishonest to me.

I am curious, so you are saying that we should ignore all of Christ's teachings when his teachings do not agree with our own political agenda or beliefs?

Do you accept and believe we should abide by all the laws in Lev.?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Jesus said his disciples had to hate their mom, dad, wife, children, brothers, and sisters.

Do you believe he meant this literally, or was making a point, strongly, on putting God first in our lives?

What does this do to "Honor your father and mother?"

Just curious.

 

[Crabtownboy]

If I am not mistaken another so-called preacher [and not a Southern Baptist] who is black stated that, if he were driving a cab, he would not pick up a passenger in certain black sections of a city.

Is that being racist or prudent?

 

[corndogggy]

I am curious, so you are saying that we should ignore all of Christ's teachings when his teachings do not agree with our own political agenda or beliefs?

Do you accept and believe we should abide by all the laws in Lev.?

I am saying that when I answer a question that specifically asks for content out of the old testament by replying with content out of the old testament, I'd appreciate it of you wouldn't jump on me for it and label me as being dishonest. :thumbs:

 

[Crabtownboy]

OldRegular you have great post, some are so self righteous that they are willing to deny the very words of God to hate evil. Obama by his actions is evil.

Christians hate their own and attack them often.

There is nothing wrong in hating evil, but there is much wrong with hating another human.

 

[matt wade]

Jesus said his disciples had to hate their mom, dad, wife, children, brothers, and sisters.

I don't know why I bother to respond to you and try and reason with you, since you seem intent on mocking scripture and trying to point anything you think is a fault, but I'm going to try anyway.

The verse you are mentioning is simply saying that we should love Christ so much that in comparison our feelings for others is like hate. That is, the amount we love Christ should be so far beyond our love for others that it makes the love we have for others so insignificant that it is closer to hate than it is to the love we have for Christ.

I know you aren't going to get it, but I had to try anyway.

 

[matt wade]

OldRegular you have great post, some are so self righteous that they are willing to deny the very words of God to hate evil. Obama by his actions is evil.

Christians hate their own and attack them often.

Nope...I'm not ignoring that we should hate evil. I do hate evil, but I love the person. I can hate someone's actions and hate their policies, but I must love the person. How can you take the Gospel to the world when you hate those in the world? All have sinned. So, all are evil. If we use your standard and hate those that do evil things, we should hate everyone and thus we would never share the Gospel with them. We are to love people and love them so much that we don't want them to die and spend an eternity in hell. We should love them and tell them how to be saved. You can't honestly share the Gospel with someone you hate.

The best thing we as Christians can do is to pray for the Holy Spirit to change Obama. If we are ever presented with an opporunity to witness to him we should. Stand firm against his policies, but do so in love and without acting like a buffoon that is full of hate.

 

[corndogggy]

Do you believe he meant this literally, or was making a point, strongly, on putting God first in our lives?

What does this do to "Honor your father and mother?"

Just curious.

I'm not sure, interesting though isn't it? :thumbs:

You know, since you're all worried about the laws of the old testament being null and void, I should remind you that it was Jesus who got mad at people for not stoning their children to death if they cursed their parents, which was an old testament law. (Matthew 15:3-4)

Apparently he didn't want that one to be null and void, so why would the others be? After all, Jesus specifically said that he did not come to destroy the laws of the old testament. (Matthew 5:17)

 

[Crabtownboy]

I'm not sure, interesting though isn't it? :thumbs:

You know, since you're all worried about the old testament being null and void, I should remind you that it was Jesus who got mad at people for not stoning their children to death if they cursed their parents, which was an old testament law. (Matthew 15:3-4)

Apparently he didn't want that one to be null and void, so why would the others be? After all, Jesus specifically said that he did not come to destroy the laws of the old testament. (Matthew 5:17)

I'm not mad at the OT, but I do think we have to be very careful in how we approach it when it comes to spiritual truth. When I see a conflict between what is in the OT and in Christ's teachings then I have to side with Christ until and if I figure out a resolution to the contridiction. This is not casting a stone at the OT, but at my understanding. There are some things I cannot reconcile between the two.

There is good history in the OT and I think that can be used effectively in our attempts to understand the world they live in ... in fact the laws also give us a view into their every day world.

I hope this makes some sense.

 

[matt wade]

You know, since you're all worried about the laws of the old testament being null and void, I should remind you that it was Jesus who got mad at people for not stoning their children to death if they cursed their parents, which was an old testament law. (Matthew 15:3-4)

Here we go again...you are once again taking things out of context. As usual I believe you are simply trying to bait people, but I guess I'll go after your bait.

This was said in response to them asking Jesus why His disciples were not washing their hands properly. He simply was pointing out to them that they were hypocrites and that they themselves were not following the exact letter of the law. In this way Jesus was showing that since He had come that we no longer needed to follow the exact OT law. He came so that we could be saved and not attempt to work ourselves into heaven.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I will not be lectured on biblical love from someone who doesn't believe John the Baptist was alive when he jumped in his mother's womb. If you can justify the murder of the unborn, then any lecture on hate is lost on me.

That being said, I don't hate Obama. But I do pray his reign is a short one. I pray our nation wakes up to the one party system disguised as democracy, and starts voting in some worthy servants.