Socialist : an insult ?

[Matt Black]

The Soviet Union was a kingdom, then? News to me...

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Ok Robert, I know you are MP's cronie but I didn't know you yapped for Matt too. Fighting and paying for a war and paying the way for a dead beat are two totally different issues.

Just can't make a point without personal attacks, can you saggie?

 

[Matt Black]

Ok Robert, I know you are MP's cronie but I didn't know you yapped for Matt too. Fighting and paying for a war and paying the way for a dead beat are two totally different issues.

Quit with the ad hominems if you want people to take you seriously. And please provide an answer to my last question while you're at it - if you have one.

 

[sag38]

Boo hoo hoo..... and I did answer your question.

 

[Matt Black]

No you haven't - and your posting style continues to suggest that you don't have an argument to advance.

 

[sag38]

How is one supposed to argue pacificm vs supporting dead beats? You sir, are the one without a valid argument.

 

[alatide]

>>1. It is a system where business interests and motives are held supreme over the interests of the public – usually leading to detrimental impacts on the public good.

>Isn't this called free market capitalism? So, you claim that America has always been a corporate fascist state?

Ever since the Supreme Court decided that a corporation was a "person" with the same constitutional rights (where applicable) as a human person.

A corporation doesn't have the same rights as a person. In some cases it has more and in some less.

 

[alatide]

But, the rest of your post qualifies for the bed wetting liberal award of the year.

Now isn't that special?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Boo hoo hoo..... and I did answer your question.

Well, there's proof...some folks are incapable of having intelligent, adult dialog.

 

[sag38]

I am so hurt, MP insulted me.

 

[billwald]

>A corporation doesn't have the same rights as a person. In some cases it has more and in some less.

That is why "where applicable" was placed in the sentence you cited.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I am so hurt, MP insulted me.

I'd say you got stung with your own stinger.

 

[sag38]

Oh no, he stung me again. Whatever will I do with myself?

 

[Nonsequitur]

Au contraire: what we are now experiencing is, in some ways, the pinnacle of untrammelled free-market capitalism - where the free market acquires such power that it controls the government and forces it to do its bidding; thus government becomes 'involved' as you put it but at the behest of the Market. The most glaring example of this in recent months has been the taxpayer-funded bank bail outs on both side of the Pond: the Market demanded that the government help it out with the very real threat of global economic meltdown if it failed to do so, and the governments of the developed world danced to its tune at our expense. In many ways, for all the talk of 'nationalised' or even 'socialised' banks (which is laughable anyway - you see what happens when government tries to get the banks to turn the bonus tap off!), this represents the antithesis of communism: everyone is being ripped off for the benefit of the privileged rich few...

Like I said, Poncho has hit closest to the nail out of all of us...

Uh, we? You live in England. Why would you make a statement about, "untrammelled free-market capialism"? Why do you care what we do here in the U.S.?
The market demanded that the government help? I'm sure the CEO of GM came to the government and said, "Please fire me. I don't know what I'm doing. For the sake of America, please take over our private company and save America!"
No one that I know wanted the government to give a penny to the banks...or the insurance companies... or the airlines...or any other private organization. Let them fail. This is America, there is always someone in the wings that can do the same job smarter, more efficient and without government control or money. It's called free-interprise.
It's very simple really. One has a product or a service that people want or need. For a fair renumeration, the exchange is made and all are happy. Don't like the product or service that you paid for? Go to a competitor. This is called 'shopping' and is called the free market.
Now if you're told by the government what , when, and where to buy what you want and need, then it's time for a new government.

 

[Nonsequitur]

No, this is apples and apples: the pacifist is forced to part with his money by the government to pay for a cause to which he strenuously objects; so are you. Why is your opinion more important than his? You support the government in their denial of his conscience; why therefore should others not do the same to you?

Then if he is a true pacifist, he should have no problem with someone taking away all that he has.
But if one is not a pacifist, then one gets a little upset when one's tax money is used for something that one strenuously objects to, such as abortion.
If a pacifist will not fight for his country, his land, his home, and his family, why in the world should I care about his opinion about anything?

 

[poncho]

Isn't this called free market capitalism? So, you claim that America has always been a corporate fascist state?

1. It is a system where business interests and motives are held supreme over the interests of the public – usually leading to detrimental impacts on the public good.

​

Where in my post do you see me make the claim "America has always been a corporate fascist state"?​

What's the difference between "free market" and fascist alatide? The answer I think would be control. ​

Free market, ​

An economic market in which supply and demand are not regulated or are regulated with only minor restrictions.​

Fascist,​

Government and business or in our case, business and government merged. (this is Mussolini's definition)​

Contrary to popular belief the government is not at the top of the power structure in the United States, the international banking cartels and transnational corporations are. They have "control" over the government and therefore are able to set their owns rules in order to manipulate the market to their advantage. So much so that it has gone beyond simple leverage to theft on a grand scale. ​

Incidentally, the international banking cartels and transnational corporations have their own huge marketing and advertizing machine to convince you that this is how things are meant to be and everything is being done in your best interest, which is a gargantuan lie of course.​

This monumental propaganda machine is called the mainstream corporate media (only 5 or 6 mega consolidated corporations control the lion's share of it). It's a tool like any other. It has a specific purpose. That purpose is to dumb us down, divide us, distract us and condition us the same way as Palov conditioned his dogs.

Yes, I think control is what makes up the difference between "free market" and fascist.​

 

[Spear]

Uh, we? You live in England. Why would you make a statement about, "untrammelled free-market capialism"? Why do you care what we do here in the U.S.?

Probably because we are concerned of what's going on in the world, and not self-centered. The economy is global, and there are some partners outside of America. Everything you produce is not just for the USA, some things are exported, and some things come from other countries (imports). We're not in autarcy.

The market demanded that the government help? I'm sure the CEO of GM came to the government and said, "Please fire me. I don't know what I'm doing. For the sake of America, please take over our private company and save America!"
No one that I know wanted the government to give a penny to the banks...or the insurance companies... or the airlines...or any other private organization. Let them fail.

Let's say banks and GM fail ... a man is 55 and has been working for 35 years on a production chain at GM. Let's say there're 10000 like him fired at the same time. Considering the crisis, i'm not sure he'll find a job. All those people loosing their jobs, in such a high number, at the same time, will be a big break, cause they won't be able to buy much, and less goods will be sold.

" Letting the banks fail " ... let's say the big banks fail. Who will pay ? The government ? Or will you let all the debts down by the same way ? You're living in a country where the rent of workers isn't managed by the government, but invested in pension funds and stock market. If tomorrow you say (maybe it happened to US retired citizen) to the grandpas and grandmas taking sun in California they lost all their money, what will they do ? Die ? Start working again ? And all the companies who owe the debts, if the banks fail, what will they do ? Shut ?

If a pacifist will not fight for his country, his land, his home, and his family, why in the world should I care about his opinion about anything?

Because it is his right. I think pacifists think there're other ways than war. Pacifism has nothing to do with cowardness, i think it's a political engagement.

 

[alatide]

Then if he is a true pacifist, he should have no problem with someone taking away all that he has.
But if one is not a pacifist, then one gets a little upset when one's tax money is used for something that one strenuously objects to, such as abortion.
If a pacifist will not fight for his country, his land, his home, and his family, why in the world should I care about his opinion about anything?

There's no connection between being a pacifist and allowing someone to take away everything you have. Pacifists do not take a vow of poverty. They would be unlikely to take a semi-automatic weapon down to the IRS or the Congess and begin spraying the place with bullets, however.

 

[Nonsequitur]

Probably because we are concerned of what's going on in the world, and not self-centered. The economy is global, and there are some partners outside of America. Everything you produce is not just for the USA, some things are exported, and some things come from other countries (imports). We're not in autarcy.



Let's say banks and GM fail ... a man is 55 and has been working for 35 years on a production chain at GM. Let's say there're 10000 like him fired at the same time. Considering the crisis, i'm not sure he'll find a job. All those people loosing their jobs, in such a high number, at the same time, will be a big break, cause they won't be able to buy much, and less goods will be sold.

" Letting the banks fail " ... let's say the big banks fail. Who will pay ? The government ? Or will you let all the debts down by the same way ? You're living in a country where the rent of workers isn't managed by the government, but invested in pension funds and stock market. If tomorrow you say (maybe it happened to US retired citizen) to the grandpas and grandmas taking sun in California they lost all their money, what will they do ? Die ? Start working again ? And all the companies who owe the debts, if the banks fail, what will they do ? Shut ?



Because it is his right. I think pacifists think there're other ways than war. Pacifism has nothing to do with cowardness, i think it's a political engagement.

"Probably because we are concerned of what's going on in the world, and not self-centered."
Spoken like a true non-centered countryman who's country has never won a war except for the French Revolution. Yeah, right, we're so self-centered that we liberted your country twice. But of course it was all just a capitalistic ploy to make money.


"Let's say banks and GM fail ... a man is 55 and has been working for 35 years on a production chain at GM. Let's say there're 10000 like him fired at the same time. Considering the crisis, i'm not sure he'll find a job. All those people loosing their jobs, in such a high number, at the same time, will be a big break, cause they won't be able to buy much, and less goods will be sold."
Yeah, that's the breaks. You got it. All 10,000 of them will just turn over and cry to the government to help them. None will use what they know to find new jobs or create their own companies. Dang Americans, just a bunch of whiners.
" Letting the banks fail " ... let's say the big banks fail. Who will pay ? The government ? Or will you let all the debts down by the same way ? You're living in a country where the rent of workers isn't managed by the government, but invested in pension funds and stock market. If tomorrow you say (maybe it happened to US retired citizen) to the grandpas and grandmas taking sun in California they lost all their money, what will they do ? Die ? Start working again ? And all the companies who owe the debts, if the banks fail, what will they do ? Shut ?
Who will pay? The investors in the bank. Why should it be the tax-payers who have nothing invested in that interprise? The 'rent of workers'? We don't pay for that here. You are thinking of your own country.
The grandpa and grandmas will just have to suck it up like the rest of the people. And since most of them went through our 'Great Depression', I'm sure most of them do not only have all their assets in one bank and will survive.
"Because it is his right. I think pacifists think there're other ways than war. Pacifism has nothing to do with cowardness, i think it's a political engagement."
Tell that to the Jews at Chrystallnacht(SP?)

 

[Nonsequitur]

They would be unlikely to take a semi-automatic weapon down to the IRS or the Congess and begin spraying the place with bullets, however.

No kidding. You mean, like a pacifist?