Sola Scriptura and OSAS...again

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Elijah never died according to the OT

Show me that in Scripture.

I think you are about to show yourself.

I see he was carried into heaven,

You just answered your own question unless you can find a reference to saints in heaven... dying in heaven.

And as we see in Matt 17 -- Elijah is still around..

So show me where Elijah was glorified in Scripture,

Luke 9:29-31
"29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. "

 

[Yeshua1]

Without the shedding of blood - no remission of sins. The sacrifice is being discussed in terms of payment for sins.



It provides for that remission but not one single lost sinner is saved until they accept the Gospel. The wicked will not be in heaven.

Jesus is "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The Day of Atonement doctrine in the Bible - Lev 16 -- does not end with the slaying of the "Sin offering" but rather it ends once all the work of the High Priest has completed. Hebrews 8:1-5 tells us when Christ's work in that regard began and that it was still going on as of the writing of the book of Hebrews.

====================

The text in Hebrews points specifically to the sacrifice -


Hebrews 10:1-4
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


However, being sanctified once (for all is an insertion) by the Sacrifice of Christ...


Hebrews 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are being sanctified.


1 John 2:2 Chris is the "Atoning sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

As God promised the lamb of God was slain for the sins of the world.

But the world is not going to all be saved -- because it was the atoning sacrifice of Lev 16 - the Lord's goat slain -- yet the work of Christ as High priest in Lev 16 -- is still going on according to Hebrews 8:1-5 and Hebrews 9.

Jesus said that salvation was finished and accomplished while on the Cross, so it is a done deal, and ALL saved by grace of God in this life are eternally secured, as Jesus is our High priest, and who can undo Him being our advocate before the father?

 

[BobRyan]

Moses was resurected

Great, show me where it says that in Scripture.

If he was, then he forgot to take his bones with him...


Jude 9
King James Version (KJV)

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

.

You're quoting the part of Jude - that quotes from the book "The Assumption of Moses" which is about the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus said that salvation was finished and accomplished while on the Cross, so it is a done deal, and ALL saved by grace of God in this life are eternally secured, as Jesus is our High priest, and who can undo Him being our advocate before the father?

you are quoting mostly 'you' in that post which is what is needed to make your point.

I prefer the Bible

And the Bible says In Lev 16 (Day of Atonement) that Atonement includes both the work of Christ as the "atoning sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins OF THE WHOLE WORLD" -- but that it also includes the Hebrews 8:1-5 work of Christ in heaven as High Priest

That does not change simply by ignoring the Bible details and quoting yourself a bunch of times. I think we both know that.

 

[BobRyan]

Show me that in Scripture. I see he was carried into heaven, the sky, and that is it. We have to violate numerous principles of Scriptures to embrace such a view. One would be flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. .

Christ argues in favor of bodily resurrection when he asks the people to touch his flesh and feel the wounds and give him some fish to eat -- in His resurrected form.

Enoch, Elijah, Moses would be every bit as physical --- no problem at all there unless you do not agree with bodily resurrection of Christ and the saints.

 

[Darrell C]

Without the shedding of blood - no remission of sins. The sacrifice is being discussed in terms of payment for sins.



It provides for that remission but not one single lost sinner is saved until they accept the Gospel. The wicked will not be in heaven.

Jesus is "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The Day of Atonement doctrine in the Bible - Lev 16 -- does not end with the slaying of the "Sin offering" but rather it ends once all the work of the High Priest has completed. Hebrews 8:1-5 tells us when Christ's work in that regard began and that it was still going on as of the writing of the book of Hebrews.

====================

The text in Hebrews points specifically to the sacrifice -


Hebrews 10:1-4
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


However, being sanctified once (for all is an insertion) by the Sacrifice of Christ...


Hebrews 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are being sanctified.


1 John 2:2 Chris is the "Atoning sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

As God promised the lamb of God was slain for the sins of the world.

But the world is not going to all be saved -- because it was the atoning sacrifice of Lev 16 - the Lord's goat slain -- yet the work of Christ as High priest in Lev 16 -- is still going on according to Hebrews 8:1-5 and Hebrews 9.

You're still ignoring the context of my point.

Again, the point is that the sacrifices of the Law could not make complete those who either offered them or those who they were offered for, but the Sacrifice of Christ make those sanctified in completion in regards to remission of sins forever.

The fact that not everyone will be saved by that Sacrifice is not relevant to the context of Hebrews 9 or 10, it is a contrast of what the Law did (and didn't do) and what Christ has done.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Lev 16 informs us that it is the work of Christ as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 AND ALSO - the work of Christ as our High Priest (See Hebrews 8:1-5 called "the MAIN POINT") -- that accomplishes the full Bible scope for Atonement

Without the shedding of blood - no remission of sins. The sacrifice is being discussed in terms of payment for sins.

It provides for that remission but not one single lost sinner is saved until they accept the Gospel. The wicked will not be in heaven.

Jesus is "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The Day of Atonement doctrine in the Bible - Lev 16 -- does not end with the slaying of the "Sin offering" but rather it ends once all the work of the High Priest has completed. Hebrews 8:1-5 tells us when Christ's work in that regard began and that it was still going on as of the writing of the book of Hebrews.

====================

The text in Hebrews points specifically to the sacrifice -


Hebrews 10:1-4
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


However, being sanctified once (for all is an insertion) by the Sacrifice of Christ...


Hebrews 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are being sanctified.


1 John 2:2 Chris is the "Atoning sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

As God promised the lamb of God was slain for the sins of the world.

But the world is not going to all be saved -- because it was the atoning sacrifice of Lev 16 - the Lord's goat slain -- yet the work of Christ as High priest in Lev 16 -- is still going on according to Hebrews 8:1-5 and Hebrews 9.[

Jesus said that salvation was finished and accomplished

The atoning sacrifice was finished at the cross ... it was for "the WHOLE WORLD".

 

[Darrell C]

Without the shedding of blood - no remission of sins. The sacrifice is being discussed in terms of payment for sins.

Correct. And what we have to understand is that the sacrifices of the Law, and those that went before (sacrifice began in the Garden, and is seen practiced by Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job, and Jacob, before the Law was established), did bring about atonement and remission of sins, but...

...not in an eternal context.

Only Christ did that, and it was not applied until He actually did it:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


I think the primary problem is that your doctrine demands equating those things which are distinct, such as in the case of the use of the term "glory," and you are not giving attention to what Chapter 10 is actually stating. Just read Chs. 9-10, and see the clarification the Writer gives as to the temporal and earthly nature of the Law and those practices associated with it.

Here is an example of the Sacrifice of Christ distinguished from all other sacrifice:


Hebrews 12:24
King James Version (KJV)

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


This is one of the few times I know of when the Writer steps outside of an exclusively Hebrew context, where he makes it clear that Christ's death is better than those prior. I view this as looking at Abel's sacrifice...


Genesis 4
King James Version (KJV)

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


...not his death. This is, I believe, in order to show Christ's Sacrifice as superior to all sacrifice, going back to the very beginning of man's existence.

Again, this...


Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


...is the most indisputable statement of Eternal Security in all of Scripture. That is my opinion of course, but no-one can deny what it states.

Ignore it, as you have done, but deny it...no.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I think you are about to show yourself.

On the contrary, I see nothing that states "Elijah never died."

You just answered your own question unless you can find a reference to saints in heaven... dying in heaven.

No man went to Heaven prior to the Cross. How then was Elijah in Heaven?

And as we see in Matt 17 -- Elijah is still around..

His spirit, yes. This is the same principle as Christ teaching Abraham was still "alive," lol.

Where is your Scripture that states "Elijah never died?"

Luke 9:29-31
"29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. "

Note the footnote:


Luke 9:29-31
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and [a]gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.
Footnotes:

Luke 9:29 Lit flashing like lightning
Luke 9:31 Or splendor


Come on Bob, present some Scripture, I can't keep repeating the same points for you to address. Someone is going to accuse me of spamming...




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Moses was resurected



You're quoting the part of Jude - that quotes from the book "The Assumption of Moses" which is about the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven.

And that is in the Bible...where?

All I see is a reference of a dispute over the body, not the person...of Moses.

He died.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Christ argues in favor of bodily resurrection when he asks the people to touch his flesh and feel the wounds and give him some fish to eat -- in His resurrected form.

Here...


Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


...the disciples are still unbelieving in His Resurrection. Christ affirms man's two-part make-up, body and spirit, and comforts them that He is not a spirit...and still dead. It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead.

See the disciples unbelief rebuked by Christ here...


Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


Many understood and believed the resurrection of the dead as taught in the Old Testament. Those who did not, namely the Sadducees (the original annihilationists)...

...stood out.

Enoch, Elijah, Moses would be every bit as physical --- no problem at all there unless you do not agree with bodily resurrection of Christ and the saints.

Great, but as I keep requesting, where is your Scripture? Where does it say that "Elijah never died?"

And Not sure how you get I "do not agree with the bodily resurrection of Christ and the saints." I spend quite a bit of time dealing with that issue, lol. It's just when it happens that we are disagree about.

Only Christ has been glorified at this point, and the Church is the next to be glorified in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Then the Two Witnesses, then the Tribulation martyrs, then the believing of the Millennial Kingdom.

Seems pretty simple if we maintain a proper timeline.

Gotta go, but enjoying it.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

So then 3 basic points

1. the work of Christ at the cross - as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

2. The work of Christ today "the main point" Hebrews 8:1-5 calls it "the MAIN POINT")

3. Lev 16 informs us that it is the work of Christ as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 AND ALSO - the work of Christ as our High Priest (See Hebrews 8:1-5 called "the MAIN POINT") -- that accomplishes the full Bible scope for Atonement

 

[BobRyan]

Here...


Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


...the disciples are still unbelieving in His Resurrection. Christ affirms man's two-part make-up, body and spirit, and comforts them that He is not a spirit...and still dead. It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead.
.

I find your statement that Christ tells us nothing about the bodily resurrected form of Christ - puzzling.

you said "It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead."

And arguing that it is not a "spirit resurrection" but a bodily resurrection

 

[BobRyan]

Moses was resurected

Darrell C said: ↑
Great, show me where it says that in Scripture.

If he was, then he forgot to take his bones with him...


Jude 9
King James Version (KJV)

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

.
You're quoting the part of Jude - that quotes from the book "The Assumption of Moses" which is about the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven.

And that is in the Bible...where?

You just quoted it.


Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament - Jude 9
"(Adumb. in Ep. Judae) says that Jude quoted here the Assumption of Moses, one of the apocryphal books. Origen says the same thing. Mayor thinks that the author of the Assumption of Moses took these words from Zechariah and put them in the mouth of the Archangel Michael. There is a Latin version of the Assumption. Some date it as early as B.C. 2, others after A.D. 44."


so then the Matt 17 mount of transfiguration is not a seance... not communication with the dead in any way shape or form.

 

[Darrell C]

I find your statement that Christ tells us nothing about the bodily resurrected form of Christ - puzzling.

Here is what I said:

...the disciples are still unbelieving in His Resurrection. Christ affirms man's two-part make-up, body and spirit, and comforts them that He is not a spirit...and still dead. It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead.

This is in response to...

Christ argues in favor of bodily resurrection when he asks the people to touch his flesh and feel the wounds and give him some fish to eat -- in His resurrected form.

I did not say "Christ tells us nothing about the bodily resurrected form of Christ."

Address what I did say, please. The context has Christ showing the disciples...He is not still dead, but risen from the Grave as He said He would.

He is not "arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," which would only be relevant if those addressed were Sadducees.

And as I said, the disciples were believers of the resurrection of the dead, they simply didn't believe Christ had risen from the dead. They had, as many people do, a view that there would be one general resurrection of the dead. That men would be glorified when resurrected was...

...still Mystery. That had not been revealed to them yet, and would not be until Paul revealed it to men.

you said "It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead."

Yes, that is what I said. Because that is what it is. And keep in mind it is to address your view that glorification was taking place prior to the Cross. not addressing resurrection in general.. The point was specific, and you have left the field.

Please bring the ball back.

And arguing that it is not a "spirit resurrection" but a bodily resurrection

Also something I did not say, nor imply.

That Christ's glorification is spiritual is a given.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You're quoting the part of Jude - that quotes from the book "The Assumption of Moses" which is about the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven.

That is not what I was asking for a location in the Bible, lol.

You just quoted it.

Actually I did not, and I still haven't received an answer to my question.

What I want to know the location in Scripture for is this:

the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven.

Again, where is "...the bodily assumption of Moses into heaven" found in Scripture.

I do not view apocryphal books as Scripture, nor any writing that is outside of the 66 Book Canon. While I can understand why some people might give them credibility, what I also see is that those who do almost always teach doctrines that conflict with Scripture.

Just as the doctrine that glorification was taking place before the Cross, Resurrection, Return of Christ to Heaven, Reconciliation, Eternal Redemption, and...

...the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament - Jude 9
"(Adumb. in Ep. Judae) says that Jude quoted here the Assumption of Moses, one of the apocryphal books.

If God meant for us to know what happened to Moses body after he died...He would have let us know.

It is probably a matter of the Angel taking the carcass of Moses so Israel would not create a shrine and start worshiping Moses.

one of the apocryphal books.

And...?

Origen says the same thing.

Well, being so close to California we would expect them to embrace heretical views.

Mayor thinks that the author of the Assumption of Moses took these words from Zechariah and put them in the mouth of the Archangel Michael.

Great, but I don't have to "think" that Paul taught that Christ was the Firstborn and firstfruits from the Dead. I can know, because it is taught in Scripture, and we don't have to throw speculation into our understanding, which makes one without understanding...because they are guessing, or hoping what they believe is true.

The sequential context is very clear:


1 Corinthians 15:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


All means all. And they must be in Christ to be made alive. The Son of God came from Heaven to bestow Life, and it was not bestowed before men began being reconciled to God on an eternal basis. No man was indwelt eternally by God prior to Pentecost.

There is a Latin version of the Assumption. Some date it as early as B.C. 2, others after A.D. 44."

Guesswork. We know when Holy Scripture was written, and can trust it, and can make it part of a sound Theology.

so then the Matt 17 mount of transfiguration is not a seance... not communication with the dead in any way shape or form.

Right, not a seance, because God is the God of the living, and that is the context of Moses' and Elijah's state on the Mount. They are dead physically, but alive because their spirits still exist. No discussion that God is involved in is a seance, because He is the God of the living.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

So then 3 basic points

1. the work of Christ at the cross - as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

2. The work of Christ today "the main point" Hebrews 8:1-5 calls it "the MAIN POINT")

3. Lev 16 informs us that it is the work of Christ as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 AND ALSO - the work of Christ as our High Priest (See Hebrews 8:1-5 called "the MAIN POINT") -- that accomplishes the full Bible scope for Atonement

The death of Jesus for sins, and His resurrection as proof God accepted His sacrifice as payment in full for the elect of God chosen to unto salvation , and that was done and completed in full already, so ANY sinner now saved is eternal secured. already passed form spiritual death to spiritual life forever more!

 

[BobRyan]

Darrell C said: ↑
I see he was carried into heaven, the sky, and that is it. We have to violate numerous principles of Scriptures to embrace such a view. One would be flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. .

Christ argues in favor of bodily resurrection when he asks the people to touch his flesh and feel the wounds and give him some fish to eat -- in His resurrected form.

Luke 24
“Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.


you said "One would be flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven."
Jesus said " a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Enoch, Elijah, Moses would be every bit as physical --- no problem at all there unless you do not agree with bodily resurrection of Christ and the saints.

...the disciples are still unbelieving in His Resurrection. Christ affirms man's two-part make-up, body and spirit, and comforts them that He is not a spirit...and still dead. It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead.

I find your statement that Christ tells us nothing about the bodily resurrected form of Christ - puzzling.

you said "It is not "Christ arguing in favor of bodily resurrection," it is arguing that He has risen from the dead."

And arguing that it is not a "spirit resurrection" but a bodily resurrection

I did not say "Christ tells us nothing about the bodily resurrected form of Christ."

Address what I did say, please. The context has Christ showing the disciples...He is not still dead, but risen from the Grave as He said He would.

The "specific details" you are ignoring in that response remain --

you said "One would be flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven."
Jesus said " a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Jesus appears "in the flesh" in his resurrected form - and this is the very "detail" you are objecting to with Moses in Matthew 17.

The "detail" has not gone away.

He is not "arguing in favor of bodily resurrection,"

On the contrary He specifically argues against the non-body appearance of a spirit or resurrected spirit or whatever you may wish to call it -- and proving that his is a real bodily resurrection. This is irrefutable from his own words

Jesus said " a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

This is the very detail you just complained about regarding the resurrected form of Moses in Matthew 17.

 

[BobRyan]

And as we see in Matt 17 -- Elijah is still around..



Luke 9:29-31
"29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. "

Yes, that is what I said. Because that is what it is. And keep in mind it is to address your view that glorification was taking place prior to the Cross. not addressing resurrection in general.. The point was specific, and you have left the field.

Please bring the ball back.

.

We see Moses in Matthew 17 and Luke 9 appearing in glory in his resurrected form -

Luke 9:29-31
"29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. "

And Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT admits the Jude 9 text which you also quoted - is a quote from "the Assumption of Moses"

 

[BobRyan]

So then 3 basic points

1. the work of Christ at the cross - as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

2. The work of Christ today "the main point" Hebrews 8:1-5 calls it "the MAIN POINT")

3. Lev 16 informs us that it is the work of Christ as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 AND ALSO - the work of Christ as our High Priest (See Hebrews 8:1-5 called "the MAIN POINT") -- that accomplishes the full Bible scope for Atonement

. the work of Christ at the cross - as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The death of Jesus for sins, and His resurrection as proof God accepted His sacrifice as payment in full ...

in response to


1. the work of Christ at the cross - as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

2. The work of Christ today "the main point" Hebrews 8:1-5 calls it "the MAIN POINT")

3. Lev 16 informs us that it is the work of Christ as "the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 AND ALSO - the work of Christ as our High Priest (See Hebrews 8:1-5 called "the MAIN POINT") -- that accomplishes the full Bible scope for Atonement