. . . Sola Scriptura . . . .

[Logos1560]

How about you search and not blindly follow Sola Scriptura. Show us a verse.

Are you in effect admitting and saying that the command or instruction to search the scriptures would teach sola Scripture?

Your own question would contradict your imperfect human reasoning.

 

[Logos1560]

You actually removed parts of the Holy Scriptures and then came up with your own interpretation of the rest of it..

You fail to prove your allegation to be true.

Roman Catholicism would in effect nullify the word of God or remove the sufficiency and authority of the Holy Scriptures by adding to it in contradiction to scriptural truth. The imperfect Roman Catholic fathers contradict each other in their incorrect interpretations.

Do you try to assume by fallacies that non-scripture was part of the Holy Scripture?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Google "Church Fathers infant Baptism" or on any other issue and you will get huge amounts of historical information about the earliest Christian Church and its beliefs.
Are you a first century Palestinian convert from Judaism? Maybe you're a second century Christian like St Ignatius of Antioch who was taught by St John the Apostle and ordained by St Peter? Were you at the Councils that compiled the canon of the New Testament? No? Well good news, we have all these historical writings.
If you're not reading the writings of the early Church how can you have any hope of getting a proper understanding of Scripture? Interpreting the Bible through the lens of the same men who were hand-picked heirs to the Apostles is absolutely necessary historical and theological context 2000 years later.
The Church Fathers writings are not canon, but they are the context necessary to properly understand Scripture and keep your interpretation in line with the teachings of the Apostles taught to the early Church. We don't have to guess what the early Church was like, we have huge volumes of their writings - and they were very Catholic. The same bishops from the early Church that compiled the Bible were not Protestant, they actually wrote and believe very Catholic things about the Eucharist, Mary, Purgatory, sacraments etc.
Sure, there are individual Church Fathers who floated some unusual ideas, but remember at that stage, doctrines like the Trinity hadn't even been fully expressed or defined and they couldn't benefit from centuries of thought like we can. This is why we look to the "sensus fidelium" and not any individual Church Father, because they are not individually infallible, but only as a group when there is a consensus.
If two people in the 21st century are disputing an interpretation in Scripture, we should use the Scriptural model of resolution: "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the CHURCH; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector” Mt 18:15
Doesn't this verse rest on the assumption of there being a single, visible, unified Church government capable of resolving disputes? Or else whose church do we take it too? Life Baptist Church on the corner or the one true Church of EpiscoPresbyLuthernism?
Imagine if Jesus really did just hand the Apostles a book and said to them, "you and your successors will schism and argue about how to interpret this for two millennia and this kinda confused church I'm starting is really just a loose invisible thing that your appointed successors will have no authority over because "muh sola scriptura".
I certainly prefer the Catholic interpretation of the Church as being a visible, hierarchical organisation united in doctrine and the Sacraments through all human history in all places, much like the prototype in Scripture given of the government and visible Church of Moses and Aaron:
As opposed to "Truly, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my CHURCH, and the gates of Hades will NOT prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you BIND on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you LOOSE on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 16:18-19).

Can any man form any true doctrine that is NOT first supported and proven by the scriptures?
Can any believer receive the Holy Spirit or is the Holy Spirit only received by those in big hats and elaborate costumes?
Why pushing only this hierarchical organization stuff? Did not God say through the prophet Jeremiah-
Jeremiah 31:33-35
…33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity and will remember their sins no more.” 35Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day, who orders the moon and stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—the LORD of Hosts is His name:…
This is reiterated in Hebrews 8:10 -12The New Covenant
…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”…

This is true throughout Christian history especially when CORRECTION need be given. Who does mother Mary appear to ,the Least or the Great first? If at all to the great.
LASTLY how can the Gentile RCC be the ORIGINAL church, when scripture alone ,Paul to be exact says otherwise?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

And you would be correct Wilbur. What were St. Paul's letters to the outlying church's if not a hierarchical leader of the Church telling the satellite church's where they were going wrong and how they needed to get with the correct program?

Those churches in Corinth and elsewhere were not "free and independent" entities where they would decide things for themselves. No sir, they were part of one existing church and they needed to follow the exhortations of those in authority over them - and that would be real live people, not just the words written on parchment that they would interpret for themselves.

That is right Paul is the hierarchical of the church he laid the foundation . It seems you too want to keep men from knowing God as all are to know Him. You instead want men to only know what the hierarchy wants them to know. Do you seek to keep men aligned to heretic Popes as well? They would do well to follow the apostles then and now. If these certain of the RCC did, many of its scandals would not be. Granted there have been some wonderful people who have come of this assembly however , there have been many bad actors as well. This includes its "head " at present and many Cardinals and bishops and priest. I think it is fair to say that all men should do their homework. Know God personally. Bless one another..... where one can fellowship do so as needed. But do not blindly follow as seems to be the message of you and Walter. Again, no man can lay a foundation already laid. That is Christ Jesus and you and all churches know about Him through the ORIGINAL TREE.

Men should remain alert not all hierarchy has the body of assemblies best interest in mind but rather its own.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

GARBAGE LIKE THIS SHOULD LEAD TO EXPULSION or at the very least a harsh rebuke by Catholic "hierarchy" calling these actions an abomination!
"As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man" I love being RIGHT that means I am on God's team which NEVER looses.
Enoch and Jasher called it thousands of years ahead of time. Their words are coming full circle today.

NEWS WEEK:
Tech & Science
A Controversial Human-monkey Chimera Has Been Created in China, According to a New Report
By Kashmira Gander On 8/2/19 at 4:24 AM EDT

Scientists in China have reportedly created part human, part monkey chimera embryos for the first time.

The team hope the technique will bring animals used to grow human organs for transplantation a step closer, Spain's El Pais newspaper reported.

An international team of scientists working in China genetically modified the embryos of monkeys by turning off the genes which create organs, and then inserted human stem cells. Stem cells are special because they can become another type of cell in the body, such as a nerve of muscle cell.

The approach involves the embryo of a species which is a few days old, and human embryonic stem cells, brought together in a way which would enable them to grow harmoniously, according to MIT Technology Review.

If successful, scientists could create chimeras which contain organs made of human cells. A chimera is an organism which contains two different sets of DNA.

However, the would-be chimera is not alive as researchers stopped the process, El Pais reported.

The work, led by scientist Juan CarlosIzpisúa of the Salk Institute, California and researchers at Murcia Catholic University
CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY REALLY? CONTINUED:
(UCAM), was carried out in China to side-step the potential legal issues, according to El Pais. The researchers did not release further details to the newspaper as they said they plan to publish their findings in a scientific journal.

Biologist Estrella Núñez of Spain's Murcia Catholic University who worked on the project told El Pais: "The results are very promising."

Núñez said the researchers plan to experiment with human cells and rodent and pig cells, as well as with non-human primates.

A stock image of Rhesus macaque monkeys. Researchers working in China are making human-monkey hybrids. Getty
The experiments come after Izpisúa's lab unsuccessfully carried out the world's first experiment on human and pig chimeras in 2017. The human cells "contributed very little" to the embryo's growth at one human cell for every 100,000 pig, Pablo Ross, a veterinary researcher at the University of California, Davis, who worked on the 2017 study told El Pais.
Speaking to MIT Technology Review, Ross argued using monkeys to grow human organs isn't the best approach, either.

I guess because Jorge pushes evolution instead of what the Bible clearly says " each produce after their own kind" it is no wonder such garbage SUCH ABOMINATIONS have a "Catholic" name with it. I guess there are TWO universal trains of thought. One is like that of Cain the other of Able. One set seeks to please itself the other God . Of what train of thought are the Catholics in here?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Even doctrines like the Trinity could only be defined due to the language of the scriptures. Father, Son and Holy Spirit obviously ONE God who expresses and reveals Himself in three divine ways. "Go and make disciples of all men baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Doctrines like Immaculate Conception that is first revelation but must too be supported by the written word or any spirit can present something. All revelation must too be supported by the words of the prophets. Their words are God's . That is why God says through His prophets and all Holy inspired men:

2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Psalm 19:8
The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Psalm 19:10
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Psalm 79:12
And render unto our neighbours sevenfold into their bosom their reproach, wherewith they have reproached thee, O Lord.

Psalm 119:140
Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
That title can be upheld by Genesis 3:15 " I will put enmity between you and the woman"
and Isaiah : "Behold God Himself shall give you a sign , a virgin shall be with child"
That child is called Emmanuel (God with us) so that is an Immaculate Conception and Mary is the only woman to have this happen. And it will never happen again physically to any other woman. So obviously that title stands . All the rest of that definition as defined by the Catholic church is WRONG though. Why? Because it was NOT defined based on scripture alone but upon a book not reliable for information.GET It why scripture is profitable and no other book? That simple. Other unreliable books causes confusion and division. no worries for me though I took upon myself to study , test and prove everything because first and foremost I love Jesus and greater than that He has loved me. I know all this fighting garbage of denominations is due to selfish ambition and empty pride. Each can not accept a truth from the other. Darn shame too, how much richness is missed out on. For me it is like putting together a great puzzle.
Should we put our trust in the scriptures to keep us from sinning or being lead astray OF COURSE anyone who preaches contrary is of the father of lies.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

PROFITABLE, means for gain -make more of from that which you built your doctrine from= THE FOUNDATION ALREADY LAID.
All doctrines MUST be supported by the written word that is why the scriptures are for :reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

IT IS PRETTY CLEAR as clear the Holy Trinity in scripture. So by the foundation ( scripture alone) man must base his doctrines. Interpretation now that is done with the Holy Spirit . That is evident when ones words can not be refuted by others that you know that the interpretation is ACCURATE.

 

[utilyan]

Are you in effect admitting and saying that the command or instruction to search the scriptures would teach sola Scripture?

Your own question would contradict your imperfect human reasoning.

A newspaper that mentions the constitution doesn't make the newspaper the constitution, despite how TRUE the articles.

To search the scriptures to VERIFY prophecy is what it is. It isn't PROPHECY because it is WRITINGS.

Writings is just ONE tool. A WORD isn't always written in ink and paper.

And just because your mama left you a note there is lunch in the fridge doesn't mean your note is the lunch or dinner.

The Good News. The scriptures. Are very true.

If the scripture was the FINAL and ONLY authority concerning Christianity, Simply God would not be SO STUPID to not mention it in the tens of thousands of bible verses.

We say God is not the author of confusion. Communicates quite clearly. 50 or so million out of 2 billion getting it wrong ain't so bad.

And really thats from folks who read

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

And thus conclude:

You see that a man is justified by Faith Alone and not by works.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

A newspaper that mentions the constitution doesn't make the newspaper the constitution, despite how TRUE the articles.

To search the scriptures to VERIFY prophecy is what it is. It isn't PROPHECY because it is WRITINGS.

Writings is just ONE tool. A WORD isn't always written in ink and paper.

And just because your mama left you a note there is lunch in the fridge doesn't mean your note is the lunch or dinner.

The Good News. The scriptures. Are very true.

If the scripture was the FINAL and ONLY authority concerning Christianity, Simply God would not be SO STUPID to not mention it in the tens of thousands of bible verses.

We say God is not the author of confusion. Communicates quite clearly. 50 or so million out of 2 billion getting it wrong ain't so bad.

And really thats from folks who read

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

And thus conclude:

You see that a man is justified by Faith Alone and not by works.

This is some alien doctrine. I would be afraid if I were you. The only difference is your mama did not make the lunch God DID. Better get eating and drinking it in to survive.

utilyan said:"To search the scriptures to VERIFY prophecy is what it is. It isn't PROPHECY because it is WRITINGS."
OLW's says:
What truck did you fall off of? Not one jot, not one STROKE of the pen will be lost but fulfilled WHY? Because it is prophecy and law. Wow , who let you out of the box?

 

[utilyan]

Even doctrines like the Trinity could only be defined due to the language of the scriptures. Father, Son and Holy Spirit obviously ONE God who expresses and reveals Himself in three divine ways. "Go and make disciples of all men baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Doctrines like Immaculate Conception that is first revelation but must too be supported by the written word or any spirit can present something. All revelation must too be supported by the words of the prophets. Their words are God's . That is why God says through His prophets and all Holy inspired men:

2 Samuel 22:31
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Psalm 19:8
The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Psalm 19:10
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Psalm 79:12
And render unto our neighbours sevenfold into their bosom their reproach, wherewith they have reproached thee, O Lord.

Psalm 119:140
Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
That title can be upheld by Genesis 3:15 " I will put enmity between you and the woman"
and Isaiah : "Behold God Himself shall give you a sign , a virgin shall be with child"
That child is called Emmanuel (God with us) so that is an Immaculate Conception and Mary is the only woman to have this happen. And it will never happen again physically to any other woman. So obviously that title stands . All the rest of that definition as defined by the Catholic church is WRONG though. Why? Because it was NOT defined based on scripture alone but upon a book not reliable for information.GET It why scripture is profitable and no other book? That simple. Hence, causes confusion and division. no worries for me though I took upon myself to study , test and prove everything because first and foremost I love Jesus and greater than that He has loved me. I know all this fighting garbage denominations is due to self ambition and empty pride. each can not accept a truth from the other. Darn shame too, how much richness is missed out on. for me it is like putting together a great puzzle.
Should we put our trust in the scriptures to keep us from sinning or being lead astray OF COURSE anyone who preaches contrary is of the father of lies.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

PROFITABLE, means for gain -make more of from that which you built your doctrine from= THE FOUNDATION ALREADY LAID.
All doctrines MUST be supported by the written word that is why the scriptures are for :reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

IT IS PRETTY CLEAR as clear as clear as the Holy Trinity in scripture. So by the foundation ( scripture alone) man must base his doctrines. Interpretation now that is done with the Holy Spirit . That is evident when ones words can not be refuted by others that you know that the interpretation is ACCURATE.

The author quite easily could have wrote that scripture is the required foundation, that scripture IS doctrine.

The author did not because he doesn't teach FALSEHOOD.

Jesus Christ did not practice Sola Scriptura. The APOSTLES did not practice Sola Scriptura. None of the hearer's of Jesus practice it. The Jews certainly didn't.

If Sola Scriptura were true we would be the Judaisers right now. Because there was NO SCRIPTURE to back up changing the stance of requiring following the law of Moses and getting circumcised.

The very act of even holding a "church council" itself would be an outlaw.


The apostles did not open up a king james bible to find out what they did in order to make a choice of what to do.

Its not like the SPACE BALLS movie where the characters of the movie RENT a VIDEO of the movie to fast-foward the movie to figure what they will do.

 

[utilyan]

This is some alien doctrine. I would be afraid if I were you. The only difference is your mama did not make the lunch God DID. Better get eating and drinking it in to survive.

utilyan said:"To search the scriptures to VERIFY prophecy is what it is. It isn't PROPHECY because it is WRITINGS."
OLW's says:
What truck did you fall off of? Not one jot, not one STROKE of the pen will be lost but fulfilled WHY? Because it is prophecy and law. Wow , who let you out of the box?

What you do is, Get a verse that actually teaches Sola Scriptura and show it to us.

Rather than find a verse that teaches scripture is helpful aid in our GOOD WORKS, which you would probably say is useless anyways.

In short....Hire an English teacher to communicate what is actually being said rather than wishing what it says.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Some men speak empty words, like that of which a candle wick blown out. They say this and that " Communicate what is actually being said " as if they actually make sense . They are as drift wood tossed about by currents, with no real direction. They seek to be a stumbling block to the unlearned. Then they meet the wise , Wisdom's children and speak vain words toward them without a hint of intelligence . Simply speaking words, like throwing dung and call it a rebuttal.

A true rebuke and rebuttal is based on evidence not simply personal opinion utilyan.

Oh what evil men contrive when they try to replace sound doctrine.
Believers are commissioned to hold to SOUND TEACHINGS, not the babbling of mad men .
2 Timothy 1:12-14
Hold to Sound Teaching
12For this reason, even though I suffer as I do, I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him for that day. 13Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14Guard the treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.…

 

[OfLivingWaters]

The author quite easily could have wrote that scripture is the required foundation, that scripture IS doctrine.

The author did not because he doesn't teach FALSEHOOD.

Jesus Christ did not practice Sola Scriptura. The APOSTLES did not practice Sola Scriptura. None of the hearer's of Jesus practice it. The Jews certainly didn't.

If Sola Scriptura were true we would be the Judaisers right now. Because there was NO SCRIPTURE to back up changing the stance of requiring following the law of Moses and getting circumcised.

The very act of even holding a "church council" itself would be an outlaw.


The apostles did not open up a king james bible to find out what they did in order to make a choice of what to do.

Its not like the SPACE BALLS movie where the characters of the movie RENT a VIDEO of the movie to fast-foward the movie to figure what they will do.

No they made sola scriptura (scripture alone) did someone else?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

2 Peter 1:21
Eyewitnesses of His Majesty
…20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

And the prophecy of scripture is just :
utilyan said :
"A newspaper that mentions the constitution doesn't make the newspaper the constitution, despite how TRUE the articles.

To search the scriptures to VERIFY prophecy is what it is. It isn't PROPHECY because it is WRITINGS."

OLW'S says: WHAT THE WHAT???? Again who let you out of your box?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I have a story, for anyone who is interested......

There was a great gathering called by a king to find the fairest Woman around. The room was filled with fine looking men and women. The men were cooing over all the women in their presents, at how fine they all looked and their adornments were suitable for the occasion .

But suddenly a very beautiful Woman enters the occasion and all realize they are all just mediocre . For they did not know what true beauty was because they had a standard and new nothing else. They did not realize until she entered the room their position was not very high .

What happened was, some women got jealous, others envied , and others wanted to know what she used to maintain her beauty, where she got her goods. Some men wanted nothing to do with her because she was out of their league, others still yet sought to take away her mantle and try to defame her, and there were the FEW who desired what she has. Those sought to flatter her and be seen with her. While others were indifferent because they are comfortable with what they have.
The moral of the story is,the King picks the most Beautiful one to represent Him and sit by His side. For the Woman by your side is to make you look good not bad. Unfortunately many of denominations are not stepping up.

The faithful never make Christ look bad in what they present for everything is to appeal to the Beloved. Their purpose is to draw closer to Him and draw others to Him by their beautiful LOVE!

By Danielle Niccole.

 

[Logos1560]

We say God is not the author of confusion. Communicates quite clearly.

Are you in effect admitting that the confusion in your rejection of scriptural truth is not from God?

Is the confusion that would be caused by making conflicting human tradition superior to scriptural truth from God?

 

[utilyan]

Are you in effect admitting that the confusion in your rejection of scriptural truth is not from God?

Is the confusion that would be caused by making conflicting human tradition superior to scriptural truth from God?

Yes and that confusion is known as Protestantism, Which teaches unbiblical tradition of SOLA SCRIPTURA.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes and that confusion is known as Protestantism, Which teaches unbiblical tradition of SOLA SCRIPTURA.

Rcc departed from true Gospel and became fully apostate at Council of Trent.

 

[robycop3]

Yes and that confusion is known as Protestantism, Which teaches unbiblical tradition of SOLA SCRIPTURA.

Lookin' for Scriptural support of Sola Scriptura? EASY !

Matt. 4:4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Plus, when Jesus answered Satan on the temple roof, He responded to every one of Satan's statements with, "It is WRITTEN..." & Satan had no replies. Jesus could've answered by saying, "I am the Son of God. I made everything there is, including YOU ! And you expect Me to worship someone I made? You can't be serious!" But again, He answered Satan each time with "It is written..." & Satan didn't reply, but changed the subject, knowing the Word's authority.

Speaking of Scriptural support, can you RCs show us any for the office of pope, cardinal, or archbishop? Celibacy for clergy ? Perpetual virginity for Mary when she had at least 6 other children after Jesus ? Lent ? Creation of saints by other men ? Rosary repetition & prayer beads ? On & on she goes !

 

[Logos1560]

What you do is, Get a verse that actually teaches Sola Scriptura and show it to us. .

Did you forget your own question in which you already suggested that the command to search the Scriptures (John 5:39) as commended in Acts 17 would teach sola scripture?

You contradict yourself in your erroneous reasoning. Perhaps you oppose believers searching the Scriptures because it would expose all the non-scriptural false doctrine in Roman Catholicism.

How about you search and not blindly follow Sola Scriptura. Show us a verse.

Following the light of the Scriptures is not being blind, but blindly following the darkness in the non-scriptural opinions and traditions of men would be evidence of being blind. You show that you are blind to following scriptural truth.

 

[37818]

It makes perfect sense. It is you folks who have rejected Christian orthodoxy whose doctrines come from the sacred traditions of the Church since the beginning of the Christian faith and that which was handed down from Bishop to Bishop orally and the written word. It is the Church that contains the deposit of the faith, you would do well to listen to the bride of Christ.

Genuine Christian orthodoxy is the Christian New Testament and all the word of God (Matthew 4:4). So my argument is either the 66 book Bible is the sole written word of God or you claim other documents. (Those other documents being claimed, were not so claimed until years after they were written, where as Holy Scripture was Holy Scripture upon being written.)