Some Alternate Translation Choices

[Van]

Lets look at where our dative of means form of the noun appears with a preceding preposition, "en" which literal means in or within, or inside of something, but can also be used to show instrumentality.

1Corinthians 16:13
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Here the NASB translators chose the "en" meaning as locative rather than as showing instrumentality. However the alternate translation would read ...stand firm by faith. This choice allows translation as indicated by the grammar, rather than translating as if the noun were nominative.

 

[Van]

Our next three verses display a list of attributes applicable to a group or individual.

Here they are:
2Corinthians 8:7
But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also.

2Timothy 3:10
Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance,

Titus 2:2
Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance.

The common theme in all these verses is a list of attributes is given that describe the individual's or group's characteristics. In 2 Corinthians 8:7, those in view "abound" or "excel" in everything or all things by means of faith, speech, knowledge, and complete earnestness. The last attribute (also in the dative) is the love out of or from the individual to others with the admonishment to continue that gracious work (demonstrating love toward others).

In 2 Timothy 3:10, we see that Timothy followed Paul by means of his teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love and perseverance. Thus, no need to rework the translation.

In Titus 2:2, we see the verb "sound" meaning solid and firm and unwavering with regard to faith, love and perseverance. So again, it appears the intended message is well translated.

 

[Van]

In the OP of this thread, I posted the following:

Here is an example where an "article" (ho) appears in the preposition, 2 Corinthians 13:5, (NASB) "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test?" Thus it appears when "en ho" precedes "pistei" the meaning changes from by means of faith to the actuality of faith, are you in Christ or not?​

So, when I said the noun in the dative single female form is never used with an article, I should have qualified the statement to never used except within a prepositional phase. My bad...

Here, due to the preposition "en", and a lack of any suggestion of instrumentality, the correct translator choice of the word being used is as a locative dative. No change needed.

 

[Van]

For a very different example, look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Here again we have the preposition "en" and the dative single female form of our noun. But in this example "en" is deemed by the translator as showing instrumentality.

2Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.​

If we diagram our prepositional phase, we seen "en" (translated as through) applies to two separate phrases, sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. Both phrases modify or describe an aspect of the verb "chosen" as by means of the Spirit setting us apart, and by reason of God crediting our faith in the truth as righteousness. No need to reword the verse.

 

[Van]

1Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

If we understand the verse to be saying Timothy was not his physical child, but rather his "spiritual" child by means of Timothy's same life-obtaining faith, then "...child by faith:...is the more accurate translation.

 

[Van]

In 1 Timothy 2:7 Paul is a teacher of the Gentiles "en" the subject matter of faith and truth. Thus the locative dative choice seems valid.

 

[Van]

In 1 Timothy 2:15 we have another group that will be preserved by means of a list of attributes: faith, love and sanctity with self restraint. Again, no need to rework the translation.

 

[Van]

1Timothy 3:13 (NASB)
For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Here the better translation seems to be that they obtain high standing and great confidence by faith that is in Christ Jesus. Three other translations share this view.

 

[Van]

1Tmothy 4:12 (NASB)
Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example of those who believe.

Here we have another list of attributes by means of which Timothy can be an example to believers. No need to reword the translation.

 

[Van]

2 Tmothy 1:13
Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

A better choice of words might read, "Retain the pattern of sound teachings which you have heard from me, with the faith and love in Christ Jesus.

On the other hand, Titus 1:13 presents the intended message clearly and accurately:

"This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,"
The idea is to stop those presenting false doctrine, so they will gain a better understanding of the actual gospel of Christ if they have not become unteachable.

 

[Van]

Titus 3:15
All who are with me greet you. Greet those who love us in the faith. Grace be with you all.

This might be better translated as "Greet those who have sibling love for us by faith...." The word translated "love" refers to affection based on a relationship, family or friend. Thus an affection for spiritual siblings by faith.

 

[Van]

James 1:6
But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.

Here "by faith" is indicated as the means by which the person will obtain wisdom.

 

[Van]

James 2:5 uses the prepositional phrase, rich in faith, that refers to an abundant faith in quality and quantity, thus a description of their faith, and so "rich in faith" presents the actual idea.

Lastly, 2 Peter 1:5 provides a list of attributes to enhance our faith. Thus, "For this reason, make every effort to supply to your faith virtue, and .... Again the idea is a description of things to enhance the person's faith.

 

[Van]

I see I took two bits at the apple in my views of 2 Corinthians 8:7, in post #4 changing "in faith" to "by faith, but then going with "by means of faith" in post #22. I think my second effort is the best effort.

 

[Van]

2 Corinthians 8:7
But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also.

As an "Oh by the way" observation, lets think about "in everything" or "in all things." As has been pointed out before, "all" does not refer to "everything imaginable" but only refers to what the author had in view. In this verse, everything or all things refers to the things used by an effective witness or ambassador of Christ. And this accomplishment is achieved by means of faith, speech, knowledge, complete earnestness and love for others.

 

[Van]

Second summary of thread:

Of the 39 cases where the noun "Pistei" appears (dative, single, female) without a preposition, 13 of those cases in the NASB were thought to be more accurately translated if translated as a dative of means: Acts, 6:7, 14:22, and 16:5; Romans 4:19, 20 and 14:1; 2 Corinthians 1:24, Philippians 1:27; Colossians 1:23 and 2:7: 1 Peter 5:9; Jude 1:3 and 20.

Of the 17 cases where our noun is part of a prepositional phrase, using the preposition "en" 7 of those cases were thought to be more accurately translated if translated as a dative of means: 1 Corinthians 16:13; 2 Corinthians 8:7: 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:13; Titus 3:15; James 1:6; and 2 Peter 1:5.

 

[Van]

Looking at the study results from the opposite direction, only 8 cases were found where the context did not suggest a dative of means. Here are the eight places (out of 58) where a locative dative seemed to me to reflect the intended message:
1) 2 Corinthians 13:5 - see post #23
2) 1 Timothy 2:7 - see post #26
3) 1 Timothy 2:15 - see post #27
4) 1 Timothy 4:12 - see post #29
5) 2 Timothy 3:10 - see post #22
6) Titus 1:13 - see post #30
7) James 2:5 - see post #33
8) 2 Peter 1:5 - see post #33

Edited on request

 

[Van]

Putting this study together on line was a mistake, or more accurately, it appears I made several mistakes.
First, when I checked to see how many of the 58 examples had a preceding article, I found none because I used the wrong source for verification. When I looked at an on line Greek interlinear. I found several cases, with and without an associated preposition where an "Article" is used. I found the error before, but I did not grasp the magnitude.

Then in post# 36, I listed Romans 14:1 in error, because post 2 says the existing rendering is valid. And if you take it out, I still list 13 mistranslations. Mistake after mistake...

 

[Van]

In post #18 I erroneously made the following statement, based on looking at a bogus source for verification:
"As a footnote, our noun in its dative of means form, is never, repeat never used with an article in the entire New Testament."

This statement is completely false. Full Stop

Here are the actual facts, based on an online Greek Interlinear:

1) Seven verses have both a preposition and an article: Acts of the Apostles 3:16, 1 Corinthians 16:13, 2 Corinthians 13:5, , Colossians 2:7, 1 Timothy 3:13, Titus 1:13 and 2 Peter 1:5.

2) Twelve verses have a preposition and no article: Galatians 2:20, Philippians 3:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Timothy 1:4, 1 Timothy 2:7, 1 Timothy 2:15, 1 Timothy 4:12, 2 Timothy 1:13, Titus 3:15, James 1:6, and James 2:5.

3) Nineteen verses have an article and no preposition: Acts of the Apostles 6:7, 14:22, 15:9, 16:5, and 26:18; Romans 4:19, 4:20, Romans 5:2, Romans 11:20, and Romans 14:1; 2 Corinthians 1:24; Philippians 1:27; Colossians 1:23, 2 Timothy 3:10, Titus 2:2; Hebrews 4:2; 1 Peter 5:9; Jude 1:3 and 1:20.

4) And twenty more verses have no preposition or article: Romans 3:28, 2 Corinthians 8:7, Hebrews 11:3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31.

 

[Van]

If we consider James chapter 2, and the teaching that "faith" without works is dead, we must observe that "faith" is either in the nominative case or accusative case. So when we see "faith" in the dative of means form, and the context indicates something is accomplished by means of faith, we can conclude that faith is "live" faith, or faith that is accompanied with accomplishment, dare we say "works."