Some census thoughts...

[windcatcher]

http://spktruth2power.wordpress.com...roundup-and-internment-of-japanese-americans/

WASHINGTON — Two scholars say in a new research paper that despite earlier denials, the Census Bureau was deeply involved in the roundup and internment of Japanese Americans at the onset of U.S. entry into World War II.

The academics say the Census Bureau’s involvement included identifying concentrations of people of Japanese ancestry in geographic units as small as city blocks, lending a senior Census Bureau official to work with the War Department on the relocation program and a willingness to disclose names and address of Japanese Americans.

While it is common today for the Census Bureau to publish reports that detail the number of people of a given race living in an area as small as a city block, such information was generally not available in the 1940s. But the authors of the paper contend that the Census Bureau provided such detailed information as well as age, sex, citizenship and country of birth to the War Department, now the Defense Department, on only one group — Japanese Americans.

In 1941 and ‘42, the paper says, Census Bureau officials believed that such information was valuable to the War Department’s effort in rounding up Americans of Japanese ancestry.

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What is the law?
Give the census the correct count of persons living at the posted address.
You've done your duty... and your Christian duty.

 

[padredurand]

So if the government is out looking for white (not of Hispanic origin) 49 year old male renters or a 52 year old white (not of Hispanic origin) female living in Backwater, New York..... :BangHead:

Just to think 10 short years ago the intrusive government wanted to know if you went to school and how much you spent on heating your home. 2000 Census questionnaire

 

[windcatcher]

So if the government is out looking for white (not of Hispanic origin) 49 year old male renters or a 52 year old white (not of Hispanic origin) female living in Backwater, New York..... :BangHead:

Just to think 10 short years ago the intrusive government wanted to know if you went to school and how much you spent on heating your home. 2000 Census questionnaire

I see we have a considerable gulf to bridge:

You are closer to Washington DC. Maybe it matters not to you whether your government is city, county, state or federal..... But it does to me.

If I want protection and crime control..... I expect it from the first responders of law enforcement..... local police or sheriffs deputies. The city police are hirelings, and while deserving of respect and responsible for enforcing the law, do not have a constitutional oath which binds their authority... so you may be forced to wait your day in court if your rights are violated. The sheriff and his deputies act under the oath of his constitutional office so they have a more difficult charge to protect your rights while they enforce the law. The Federal government has no rights out side their jurisdiction unless permitted by the state or your local sheriff.... (in buildings and on property of their jurisdiction).

Your local utility companies have all the information on the private vs the public sector regarding the cost of utilities.... gas, electricity, water, sewage, garbage. That is where the figures count..... within the control of your community and state. And that is within your power of oversight or to become active in pressuring your local and state government for changes which you need. The Federal government doesn't need this personal information...... and whatever information it needs can be gotten from demographics already available on the character of your community through its agencies without personally identifying you or intruding on your privacy.

Level of education?????
If unknown and unchartered..... the high school drop out who trained in a garage or gained skills aiding a carpenter, or is a willing and hard worker may compete with others in entry level employment where the employer knows nothing of the excess of college graduates applying for the same job.

Employment vs unemployment?
Your local community and your state is involved with these figure and with the dispersion of welfare and unemployment checks. The federal government can get their demographic info from them without personal identification of you.

If we ever have a tolitarian or facist government....
Here.... let it be understood that it was a democracy which elected Hitler by a majority vote......
Consider well whether it really serves your interest to volunteer information which you can lawfully withhold: Or if God requires you to report on a neighbor the business which is his own to report? Should we ever have a government which wishes to target groups of people for its own failures and scapegoat them for broken promises, failures in employment programs, economic failures, or stereotype them for gangs and drug wars or other criminal activities... to justify its own police action (federal and military.... not locally controlled or under the power of your vote, voice and citizenship rights).... I will say.... I'd do my best to be a 'Correy Ten Boom' but I don't know how you or I might make it.

God says 'Trust me' and we do or we should.... with complete confidence.
Man says 'Trust me' and we ignore the scriptures which say Trust no man. The heart of man is desparately wicked, who can know it.'

There is an evil existant in our times which has been present since the beginning in the garden..... and it is looking for opportunities to take mastery and control. We don't have to volunteer..... and, once cautioned, we have an obligation for the choices we make thereafter.

 

[padredurand]

There is an evil existant in our times which has been present since the beginning in the garden..... and it is looking for opportunities to take mastery and control. We don't have to volunteer..... and, once cautioned, we have an obligation for the choices we make thereafter.

The census is an instrument of the devil? Hold on while I get my tinfoil hat.

Now that I've been able to reflect all those radio waves from government surveillance equipment.... You are right! I found a verse in the Bible that backs you up!

Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1 NAS77​

Let's just forget that neither of us is David and we don't live in Israel
​

God says 'Trust me' and we do or we should.... with complete confidence.

God says 'Trust me' Stop there. Take all your fears, worries and concerns and leave them right there. God says, Trust me. I believe that simple statement trumps every other argument presented in this thread. What if the government decides it will use census data to locate every born again Christian in the US for the purpose of relocation like we did with the Japanese in WWII (mentioned in an earlier post)? Let say they are open and blatant about it in the 2020 census and you know what they will do with the data.

Question 3: Are you or do you consider yourself a born again Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ?

You know it is a conspiracy. You know the answer will be used against you. You know your government will punish you for answering yes. What are you going to do? Reply with something snappy like, "The constitution does not specifically require me to answer that question."

That's the bottom line. God says, "Trust me!" and He does not get specific under what conditions. Would God be any less trustworthy if we lived under a regime that was out Church hunting in the morning? Is God any less trustworthy because your government may or may not know if your have a mortgage? Is God more trustworthy to one race over another?

Man says 'Trust me' and we ignore the scriptures which say Trust no man. The heart of man is desparately wicked, who can know it.'

Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psalms 146:1-3 KJV​

I am convinced that my God is a strong God. Listen, if He can save my sin-sick soul He can keep me from harm from any earthly government -- OR NOT. I believe it is enough to know God CAN keep me from all harm.

"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. "But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up."
Daniel 3:17-18 NAS77​

Answer the questions and move on. There is no hill of nobility here.

 

[Robert Snow]

I completed my complete Census form today, and will proudly mail it tomorrow! Isn't democracy great!

 

[annsni]

On another board I'm on (secular), they are encouraging anyone who is gay and living with someone to mark down that they are "married". I'm in an argument with them about it and it seems that I'm narrow minded for thinking that we should be honest in filling out the census. Unfortunately I cannot say that as Christians we are filling out the form properly .... because we can see from this board that many are not. So we are like the world. Sad.

 

[windcatcher]

The census is an instrument of the devil? Hold on while I get my tinfoil hat.

Institutions made by man to solve the problems of fallen man and his society, can be and often are corruptions full of evil influence against the good of man and a substitute for God's dominion. But you can't put words in my mouth. Your tinfoil hat looks very nice. Hope aluminum doesn't conduct electricity. I also hear that it is bad food for the brain.... so don't cook in it... (may cause alzheimers).

Now that I've been able to reflect all those radio waves from government surveillance equipment.... You are right!

The fruit of the spirit?

I found a verse in the Bible that backs you up!

Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1 NAS77​

Let's just forget that neither of us is David and we don't live in Israel
​

Correction, Padre Sir... out of context. But if you can find that then you can find where God did authorize a census, more than once.... and that authorization was purer than those of our founding fathers.... and their motive was clearly stated so there could be no mistaking regarding the question of their motives.

God says 'Trust me' Stop there. Take all your fears, worries and concerns and leave them right there. God says, Trust me. I believe that simple statement trumps every other argument presented in this thread.

It does! But even your discussion goes beyond this... and did so early on... questioning the law and intent of others.

What if the government decides it will use census data to locate every born again Christian in the US for the purpose of relocation like we did with the Japanese in WWII (mentioned in an earlier post)?

I didn't know the census gave me the opportunity to declare my heavenly citizenship..... back up your information and I'll gladly declare myself and trust God for the results.... to Him be glory and honor forever!

Let say they are open and blatant about it in the 2020 census and you know what they will do with the data.

Question 3: Are you or do you consider yourself a born again Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ?

You asked the question. Read my post in other recent threads.... how about the one on Son of God (Baptist, General Discussion), etc. What fruit do I bear? What is my faith statement (membership info when I joined)? I know I'm not perfect... but do you have eyes? Do you have ears? Do you have a mind to think? Do you have a heart to feel? What does the spirit tell you?

You know it is a conspiracy.

And you, sir, if you believe the Bible know it is too.... and not one blessed by heaven nor within the powers of man to control.

You know the answer will be used against you.

The adversary is always ready to accuse the brethren: He doesn't need our help.

You know your government will punish you for answering yes. What are you going to do?

I hear you telling me what you think and what you think I mean. I never said that I knew any such thing.

Reply with something snappy like, "The constitution does not specifically require me to answer that question."

I will render to Cesar the things which are Cesar's and unto God the things which are God's. That which God has given me, and that which is part of my unique identification is not given nor owned by the government..... and, yes, while I have a lawful choice to do what is required and protected from doing no more..... I will protect my right to choose, no matter how angry or mocking others may be.... and , in doing so, hope in some way I am encouraging others to consider their own responsibility to exercise their own rights when they do have a choice.

That's the bottom line. God says, "Trust me!" and He does not get specific under what conditions. Would God be any less trustworthy if we lived under a regime that was out Church hunting in the morning? Is God any less trustworthy because your government may or may not know if your have a mortgage? Is God more trustworthy to one race over another?

You know my answer concerning trusting God... or you cannot be convinced and then I must leave you to your own devices. If a mortgage is your issue I don't know how it ties into the census or the necessity of counting persons so that you are fairly represented. (There was once a point in history that only those who owned property were able to vote. As this was not brought up in this thread til now.... I find it hard to believe that you are referencing it in your concerns about a mortgage, nor is that an issue of consequence to this thread or the purpose of the census.)

Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psalms 146:1-3 KJV​

I am convinced that my God is a strong God. Listen, if He can save my sin-sick soul He can keep me from harm from any earthly government -- OR NOT. I believe it is enough to know God CAN keep me from all harm.

"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. "But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up."
Daniel 3:17-18 NAS77​

Answer the questions and move on. There is no hill of nobility here.

I do not deny the latter.... but still the prophet cries my people perish for lack of knowledge. Daniel and the '3 Hebrew children' knew where their ground was and drew their line. As issues become clearer I am defining my lines. You cannot know that God will deliver you until you draw your line and decide where you will take your defense in Him and trust Him. Until you decide where your lines are drawn, you will be attacked and you may give ground which you did not know your provision or providence to protect: Once its given to the enemy, once you discover the place you could have stood, you may never be able to recover what you willingly and willfully gave up.

Those in this world who are of this world are blinded by this world and have no knowledge of where to take a stand. We are called to be salt and light and are challenged to take a stand for that which is right. We are called to encourage one another and to defend one another and to remind each other to be of good cheer and to take hope in those things which are eternal. The world can not see our faith. The only evidence of faith that it knows is what it sees in our actions. When we retreat over minor things, we've given no evidence. When we finally come to that time where we may have to endure persecution, we may lack the strength of faith that we boasted so often of having.... because we skipped the opportunity to exercise it when our load was easy and our burden was light. A question pertaining to the times of the end is when the Lord comes would He find faith upon the earth?

 

[padredurand]

When we finally come to that time where we may have to endure persecution, we may lack the strength of faith that we boasted so often of having.... because we skipped the opportunity to exercise it when our load was easy and our burden was light. A question pertaining to the times of the end is when the Lord comes would He find faith upon the earth?

So not answering the mortgage question on the census is a test of faith? You equate it to persecution? You certainly have a grandiose image of your resistance. Afraid they'll take away your John Birch membership card if you answer all the questions?

 

[MrJim]

On another board I'm on (secular), they are encouraging anyone who is gay and living with someone to mark down that they are "married". I'm in an argument with them about it and it seems that I'm narrow minded for thinking that we should be honest in filling out the census. Unfortunately I cannot say that as Christians we are filling out the form properly .... because we can see from this board that many are not. So we are like the world. Sad.

So not answering the mortgage question on the census is a test of faith? You equate it to persecution? You certainly have a grandiose image of your resistance. Afraid they'll take away your John Birch membership card if you answer all the questions?

I remember a time when I trusted my government as you do....

 

[targus]

I completed my complete Census form today, and will proudly mail it tomorrow! Isn't democracy great!

What does the census have to do with democracy?

 

[rbell]

I completed my complete Census form today, and will proudly mail it tomorrow! Isn't democracy great!

Wouldn't know. I live in a Constitutional Republic.

 

[windcatcher]

So not answering the mortgage question on the census is a test of faith? You equate it to persecution? You certainly have a grandiose image of your resistance. Afraid they'll take away your John Birch membership card if you answer all the questions?

I see, Mr Durand, that you think very lightly, or you would seriously consider before you attack those who are brethren (a sister here) in the faith of Jesus Christ.
You question my Christianity because of something so secular and material as an interpretation of man's law.... what is and what is not required. Now if this were a doctrinal issue of faith and the sovereignty of God or the atoning work and the Lordship of Jesus Christ, you'd have grounds to question.

You question my trust in God..... after I already declared Trust God.... and the contrast... trust no man. I'll add to this..... Let God be true and every man a liar!

Now you accuse me of being a card carrying member of the John Birch Society. Do you have something personal against them.... or are you just drumming the music of so many others without any real knowledge of that group? .... or what they are about? or how they got their name?
For your added enlightenment.... I am not a member of the JBS, and have never been. I do know that John Birch was a Baptist, a missionary to China, a secret informant to the US military during the revolution, and that he was innocent enough to engage in a drinking game that he engaged in while gathering intelligence... and was honest enough in his memoirs or letters to report on this experience. From what I do understand of the group, they are patriotic, support our constitutional government, support most moral positions compatible with Christianity, most are Christian.... but of various denominations and tests of faith or doctrine is not prerequisite for joining as that is not their focus: Which is their focus to encourage free speech exchanges between people with expressed concern for the wholesomeness and protection of our country and its form of government.... and for educating the people and offering a forum by which books are made available (which you may find hard to find at Barnes and Nobels, or Books A Million, etc.) exposing both the good and the bad of powerful influence upon our government and its people. I read his biography years ago. When I post in these forums, I freely state my opinions.... but I try very carefully (and I'm sure I do fail at times even then) to not discredit a group or to wrongly identify others without first having a reason which is based on more than merely parroting the opinions and the offense of others.
If you know something bad to say then.....by all means say it.... don't just throw a name around like its poison .........not even to imply it unless you wish to be thought dishonest and a hypocrite.

And, if you can be honest, you could reconsider your viewpoint and false charges against me. (But maybe I ask too much.)

Read my signature line (below): It says much of both my weakness and my motivation.

 

[padredurand]

It is obvious that I have offended you greatly, Windcatcher. I offer to you my sincerest apologies.

 

[windcatcher]

It is obvious that I have offended you greatly, Windcatcher. I offer to you my sincerest apologies.

Apology accepted, though I'd hope you can know....... I didn't take it as personal as it may appear in my post. :love2:

I do believe you have plenty of room for valid reproof and rebuke of me and any other.

=======
I can't help but smile when I think someone who needed a job, may have one just to fill out the rest of my answers on my incompleted census. At least that expense and debt will be going to a real person rather than some hole created in no-mans-land.:laugh:

-----And I may feel some remorse over lack of stewardship in this regard.... but not toooooo much.

 

[preachinjesus]

Maybe I'm curious where submitting the laws of our leaders comes into play. There is nothing specifically unChristian about the census.

Perhaps being unwilling to fill it out and send it in as requested by Law is sin. 1 Peter 2:13-17; Titus 3:1; Romans 13:1-5

 

[Robert Snow]

Maybe I'm curious where submitting the laws of our leaders comes into play. There is nothing specifically unChristian about the census.

Perhaps being unwilling to fill it out and send it in as requested by Law is sin. 1 Peter 2:13-17; Titus 3:1; Romans 13:1-5

I agree with you, that's why I filled it out completely and mailed it in. I understand that others may feel differently, and I respect their right to disagree, but I did not have any problem with anything in the Census.