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Some Pebbles For Arminians To Chew
- Thread starter Rippon
- Start date
Timtoolman
New Member
They aren't even a challenge!
Timtoolman
New Member
Rip, you copied these. How much time or thought have you put into them!
Been answered ad nausea, I am not wasting my time repeating.
Been answered ad nausea, I am not wasting my time repeating.
I think they are excellent questions for those who want to answer them honestly and still maintain a non-Calvinistic spin . Of course Calvinism is biblical . Having to be put on the hot seat with those questions would be uncomfortable for you -- I can feel your pain !
Is this "flaming"? Not really sure.
I am really sure that if it were not for God's grace, I never would have come to God for salvation on my own. It was not in me. I was dead. I am alive because of His sovereign grace, not my own free will. Yes, I did make a choice, but it was because His Spirit made me alive. I who was once dead in trespasses and sins, quickened by the powerful Holy Spirit of God. Was I free to choose? Yes, but I was only free to choose sin and death apart from His sovereign grace.
Put a buzzard in a grain field and he will starve to death. It is not his nature to eat grain. It is his nature to eat rotting flesh. I am the buzzard and apart from God's sovereign grace in making me a new creature in Christ Jesus according to His grace and mercy, I would still be the dead buzzard that I once was.
He gets all the glory for my salvation. I get none. Calvinism, I do not really know. Have read very little by John Calvin. But I do know that God chose me in eternity past according to His sovereign purpose not my future choice, this is Bible, and I will stand on it till He comes in the clouds and calls this sinner saved by His amazing grace to His spear pierced side.
Here I stand, it is upon the clear declarations of the Word of God. I can do nothing else.
I am really sure that if it were not for God's grace, I never would have come to God for salvation on my own. It was not in me. I was dead. I am alive because of His sovereign grace, not my own free will. Yes, I did make a choice, but it was because His Spirit made me alive. I who was once dead in trespasses and sins, quickened by the powerful Holy Spirit of God. Was I free to choose? Yes, but I was only free to choose sin and death apart from His sovereign grace.
Put a buzzard in a grain field and he will starve to death. It is not his nature to eat grain. It is his nature to eat rotting flesh. I am the buzzard and apart from God's sovereign grace in making me a new creature in Christ Jesus according to His grace and mercy, I would still be the dead buzzard that I once was.
He gets all the glory for my salvation. I get none. Calvinism, I do not really know. Have read very little by John Calvin. But I do know that God chose me in eternity past according to His sovereign purpose not my future choice, this is Bible, and I will stand on it till He comes in the clouds and calls this sinner saved by His amazing grace to His spear pierced side.
Here I stand, it is upon the clear declarations of the Word of God. I can do nothing else.
Timtoolman
New Member
Hmmm....I would challenge you calvinist that far far more have read calvin's teachings then those who even ever heard of Arminius. Most non calvinist I believe can say they reach their theology from just reading the bible.Originally posted by rjprince:
Here I stand, it is upon the clear declarations of the Word of God. I can do nothing else.
I would never have heard of arminius unless a calvinist brought it up. I have studied far far more the teachings of calvin then I have arminius.
I have to disagree with the clear teaching. It seems that there are many who will disagree with your veiw of "clear teaching" they "can do nothing else."
Timtoolman
New Member
Well no hot seat here. Seems no one feels like they are on the hot seat. Seems many more are tired of your re-treading the same old questions is all. Tired, by the way is not a hot seat at all!Originally posted by Rippon:
I think they are excellent questions for those who want to answer them honestly and still maintain a non-Calvinistic spin . Of course Calvinism is biblical . Having to be put on the hot seat with those questions would be uncomfortable for you -- I can feel your pain !
Calvibaptist
New Member
Hmmm....I would challenge you calvinist that far far more have read calvin's teachings then those who even ever heard of Arminius. Most non calvinist I believe can say they reach their theology from just reading the bible.Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rjprince:
Here I stand, it is upon the clear declarations of the Word of God. I can do nothing else.
I would never have heard of arminius unless a calvinist brought it up. I have studied far far more the teachings of calvin then I have arminius.
I have to disagree with the clear teaching. It seems that there are many who will disagree with your veiw of "clear teaching" they "can do nothing else." </font>[/QUOTE]I would agree with you, Tim, that most people who believe Arminian teaching have no idea who Arminius was. They have never read anything by him. But what they have read (and been taught) is Arminian theology. I read a lot of Calvinists before I got up the nerve to read the Institutes. I never read a Calvinist before I became one, but after I read alot.
I have also read some of Arminius. Some of his writings seemed harmless enough to me, but that was just because I was so used to hearing it. And he never took his teachings as far as modern people have.
I think, though, that this discussion proves nothing. Whether you've read Calvin or Arminius or not, what doth the Scripture say? To the Law and to the Testimony.
I haven't read Calvin. But I have read Arminius. You really should read Arminius. You'd find out that the "Arminians" here aren't Arminians at all. They're much closer to being Pelagians.Originally posted by Timtoolman:
I have studied far far more the teachings of calvin then I have arminius.
I am not the smartest person on here. I am a simple person. I am not a theologin. I haven't read Calvin or Arminius, but I have read God and He says that He is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should COME to repentence. Jesus also said that "If I be lifted up I will draw ALL men to me". If God meant that He is willing that some should perish, then He is the biggest liar.
If those who are going to be saved have no choice in the matter, then why do we waste so much time and effort praying and witnessing for the unsaved as we are commanded to do. If they are going to get saved let's just forget about the lost world and enjoy our lives. Forget about burdens for the lost, forget about tears for the lost. It is none of our business. I don't need to witness to my unsaved neighbor anymore, I don't need to weep over her lost soul any more because if she is on her way to Hell, God wants her there.
If those who are going to be saved have no choice in the matter, then why do we waste so much time and effort praying and witnessing for the unsaved as we are commanded to do. If they are going to get saved let's just forget about the lost world and enjoy our lives. Forget about burdens for the lost, forget about tears for the lost. It is none of our business. I don't need to witness to my unsaved neighbor anymore, I don't need to weep over her lost soul any more because if she is on her way to Hell, God wants her there.
Hi samarelda,
If God is not willing that some should perish then why is He going to be the one to tell them "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness"? What is it that is going to make Him act contrary to His will?
P.S. - they do have a choice in the matter, just like you have a choice of whether to care about your neighbor or not.
If God is not willing that some should perish then why is He going to be the one to tell them "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness"? What is it that is going to make Him act contrary to His will?
P.S. - they do have a choice in the matter, just like you have a choice of whether to care about your neighbor or not.
And you know that how? Since when do the elect have a white strip down the middle of their face so you can tell them from the non-elect?I don't need to witness to my unsaved neighbor anymore, I don't need to weep over her lost soul any more because if she is on her way to Hell, God wants her there.
Calvinists believe, do they not, that a person does not choose salvation-God chooses them for salvation--correct me please if I am wrong. If a person has no choice in the matter of salvation, then they are going to get saved no matter what.I don't need to tell anyone about the Lord because they have been predestined of chosen for salvation from the begining. Or are some people allowed to choose salvation and others are not allowed to accept Christ. I just don't get it. Calvanistic teachings just don't make any sense to me.
Hi again samarelda,
No, that is not correct. That is a common misunderstanding. Calvinists believe that no one will choose to believe on their own. Instead, God uses things like His word and caring neighbors to bring the message of the gospel to the lost, and when He is pleased He enlightens the hearers of the gospel so that they choose to believe. Since we do not know when God will be pleased to do this we simply ought to tell the gospel to all and pray that God would be pleased to use it.
No, that is not correct. That is a common misunderstanding. Calvinists believe that no one will choose to believe on their own. Instead, God uses things like His word and caring neighbors to bring the message of the gospel to the lost, and when He is pleased He enlightens the hearers of the gospel so that they choose to believe. Since we do not know when God will be pleased to do this we simply ought to tell the gospel to all and pray that God would be pleased to use it.
CompassionateConservative
New Member
I realize this was intended for Arminians (which I am not), so please forgive...
I'm happy to discuss these points with you, but let's handle one question at a time. OK?
The answer to this question is a line of thinking that begins with this step: Did God create that free will?Originally posted by Rippon:
1. Can a man have free will and God be sovereign?
I'm happy to discuss these points with you, but let's handle one question at a time. OK?