• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Some strong hard evidence for The Mark of the Beast

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The beast simply represents the opposition of the "world" to GOD. "He or IT" has been doing that at least since Cain murdered Able and "He or IT" will continue until Jesus Christ returns!

I agree with Old Regular and would like to add something for consideration. The number 6 in the scriptures relates to man. One particular man who is our Daddy Adam. The first man was of the earth earthy and sinned with his wife Eve and brought death upon all the family of man. In Adam ALL DIE!
So why 3 sixes... I believe that each of those sixes represent not only opposition to God but according to Gods sixth commandment of thou shalt not kill a mindset and activity of sinful man. Led by none other than Satan himself and his angels. Does the command thou shalt not kill only apply to men killing men. Does it not also apply to men denying that God does not exist thereby killing their Creator.

6. God does not exist... You have no God/Father Creator you evolved.
6. God did not send his Son Jesus Christ into the world to save you from your sins and die on a cross and was raised from the dead and went to Heaven and because of that sacrifice you will live in eternity with him. Jesus and Heaven are a myth when you die its over and you cease to exist.
6. Since Jesus Christ did not come he did not send the Holy Spirit. There have been many beliefs down though out history and Christianity is just another sect among those that have come before and he is only another one among the many gods they worshipped. He is in the ethereal plain dwelling with all the other gods. Put all the sixes together they deny the Triune Godhead the 3 in one... God The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. IMHO.
II Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say... And the Lord giveth thee the understanding inn all things.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The beast simply represents the opposition of the "world" to GOD. "He or IT" has been doing that at least since Cain murdered Able and "He or IT" will continue until Jesus Christ returns!

The Beast though is a person who receives worship due for God, so how can that be as you describe it?

he is also called man of Sin, the Antichrist, and he was NOT alive during the time of the First century!
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you being serious or is this sarcasm?



I just keep imagining a seminary student listing Lahaye and MacArthur as a scholarly sources...


Scholarly sources are more John Walvoord, Dwight Pentost, Leon Wood, and others. But as far as my books those are the scholars.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Read most of that article. What a bunch of hogwash!! So much time trying to persuade me not believe Revelation and not to take it literally and so many useless arguments trying to get me to understand the culture context of the time of Revelation in order not to take a literal interpretation!!! Pure nonsense!!!
Did you actually read the closing sentences?

There's nothing in there trying to make anyone disbelieve Revelation; in fact, the final sentences exhibit the author's apparent belief in the prophetic nature of the book.

If you really think it's hogwash, then please provide specifics.
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Or dont confuse my mind by reading highly intellectually nonsense intended to confuse me, but rather trust my scholarly sources like John Walvoord, John MacArthur, Tim Lahaye , and Ron Rhodes, and verify what they teach with the scripture.
Lahaye is scholarly??? Laughable.


You say you are a Calvinist but I have to wonder if you have actually bothered to read any of MacArthurs books on eschatology? Some of which are deep reads.

Here is a good one.

Christ's Prophetic Plans: A Futuristic Premillennial Primer
Johny Mac is not the end all be all of Calvinism. And I would hardly call a 224 page book a deep read.

As it turns out, I like JMac. I'm a fan of his Gospel According to Jesus book.
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Read most of that article. What a bunch of hogwash!! So much time trying to persuade me not believe Revelation and not to take it literally and so many useless arguments trying to get me to understand the culture context of the time of Revelation in order not to take a literal interpretation!!! Pure nonsense!!!
Maybe we should also read some articles on the symbolic nature of Rev. Try Beale's article on symbolism in Rev.

BTW... the point of the genre apocalyptic is not to be read literally. That is why you need to study the genre. Until you get that, you'll never get Rev. Christians in the last 2 centuries are the only ones who have mucked up this ancient literature w/ literalism.
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
I agree with Old Regular and would like to add something for consideration. The number 6 in the scriptures relates to man. One particular man who is our Daddy Adam. The first man was of the earth earthy and sinned with his wife Eve and brought death upon all the family of man. In Adam ALL DIE!
So why 3 sixes... I believe that each of those sixes represent not only opposition to God but according to Gods sixth commandment of thou shalt not kill a mindset and activity of sinful man. Led by none other than Satan himself and his angels. Does the command thou shalt not kill only apply to men killing men. Does it not also apply to men denying that God does not exist thereby killing their Creator.

6. God does not exist... You have no God/Father Creator you evolved.
6. God did not send his Son Jesus Christ into the world to save you from your sins and die on a cross and was raised from the dead and went to Heaven and because of that sacrifice you will live in eternity with him. Jesus and Heaven are a myth when you die its over and you cease to exist.
6. Since Jesus Christ did not come he did not send the Holy Spirit. There have been many beliefs down though out history and Christianity is just another sect among those that have come before and he is only another one among the many gods they worshipped. He is in the ethereal plain dwelling with all the other gods. Put all the sixes together they deny the Triune Godhead the 3 in one... God The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. IMHO.
II Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say... And the Lord giveth thee the understanding inn all things.
To clarify, the text does not say 6-6-6 but six hundred and sixty six. They didn't think in numerals like 666. So this is likely gematria of a name... Caesar Nero is the most likely.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
BTW... the point of the genre apocalyptic is not to be read literally. That is why you need to study the genre. Until you get that, you'll never get Rev. Christians in the last 2 centuries are the only ones who have mucked up this ancient literature w/ literalism.

Thank you:thumbs::sleeping_2:
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Maybe we should also read some articles on the symbolic nature of Rev. Try Beale's article on symbolism in Rev.

BTW... the point of the genre apocalyptic is not to be read literally. That is why you need to study the genre. Until you get that, you'll never get Rev. Christians in the last 2 centuries are the only ones who have mucked up this ancient literature w/ literalism.

Why not take it literally? Why modify the historical grammatical approach to interpretation? Why do you read passages on the Holy Spirit literally, but dodge passages on prophecy?

Something for you to read.

http://www.walvoord.com/series/341
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To clarify, the text does not say 6-6-6 but six hundred and sixty six. They didn't think in numerals like 666. So this is likely gematria of a name... Caesar Nero is the most likely.

Then what is the point of God putting the book in the Bible if it was not to be interpreted literally and as a future reality for future generations?
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Maybe we should also read some articles on the symbolic nature of Rev. Try Beale's article on symbolism in Rev.

BTW... the point of the genre apocalyptic is not to be read literally. That is why you need to study the genre. Until you get that, you'll never get Rev. Christians in the last 2 centuries are the only ones who have mucked up this ancient literature w/ literalism.

This one looks to be better written. I will print it out. I am aware of that author and his place in many seminaries as he was used at BJU, but yes his eschatology comments were ignored.
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Why not take it literally? Why modify the historical grammatical approach to interpretation? Why do you read passages on the Holy Spirit literally, but dodge passages on prophecy?

Something for you to read.

http://www.walvoord.com/series/341
As Beale's article points out, Rev precludes a symbolic understanding not a literal one. That, and the genre requires that as well.

I'm not gung-ho on the historical-grammatical approach b/c the apostles often departed from that. It is not just "prophecy" that I read figurally. I read all Scripture messianically (typologically and narratively).
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Then what is the point of God putting the book in the Bible if it was not to be interpreted literally and as a future reality for future generations?
This would actually be a literal reading of the mark of the beast referring to a name of a man. This is taking what we know was historical (gematria) and applying it to the context. You are the one allegorizing it to be some kind of computer chip or something.
 

Greektim

Well-Known Member
This one looks to be better written. I will print it out. I am aware of that author and his place in many seminaries as he was used at BJU, but yes his eschatology comments were ignored.
Better written? I'm not even going to ask your criteria to determine that. I'll just say that I"m a huge Beale fan. But Aune is good as well. If you notice, those two have written the top 2 commentaries on Rev. Perhaps both their voices should be heard equally.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
The Beast though is a person who receives worship due for God, so how can that be as you describe it?

he is also called man of Sin, the Antichrist, and he was NOT alive during the time of the First century!

Were you there? Do you have first hand knowledge?

As I recall history shows the early Church endured severe persecution at the hands of the Jews initially and then the Roman Empire.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Earlier I posted the ten worst tragedies in History. Perhaps a little more history is in order for some:

The first major persecutor of the Church and individual Christians was the Roman Empire. Severe persecution began under Nero, continued under Domitian [81-96 AD], Trajan [98-117 AD], and intermittently thereafter until the time of Constantine. The most severe persecution of the Church began under the reign of Diocletian in 303 AD and lasted until 311 AD. Schaff [Volume 2 History of the Christian Church, page 68] describes one particular act of persecution under Diocletian in which one can readily see the fulfillment of John’s prophecy regarding those who do not wear the mark of the beast [Revelation 13:17], as follows:

The persecution raged longest and most fiercely in the East under the rule of Galerius and his barbarous nephew Maximin Daza, who was intrusted by Diocletian before his retirement with the dignity of Caesar and the extreme command of Egypt and Syria. He issued in autumn, 308, a fifth edict of persecution, which commanded that all males with their wives and servants, and even their children, should sacrifice and actually taste the accursed offerings, and that all provisions in the markets should be sprinkled with sacrificial wine. This monstrous law introduced a reign of terror for two years, and left the Christians no alternative but apostasy or starvation.

No implants but?????????
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Earlier I posted the ten worst tragedies in History. Perhaps a little more history is in order for some:

The first major persecutor of the Church and individual Christians was the Roman Empire. Severe persecution began under Nero, continued under Domitian [81-96 AD], Trajan [98-117 AD], and intermittently thereafter until the time of Constantine. The most severe persecution of the Church began under the reign of Diocletian in 303 AD and lasted until 311 AD. Schaff [Volume 2 History of the Christian Church, page 68] describes one particular act of persecution under Diocletian in which one can readily see the fulfillment of John’s prophecy regarding those who do not wear the mark of the beast [Revelation 13:17], as follows:

No implants but?????????
It is all irrelevant. Jesus predicted that their would be wars and rumors of wars. Peter wrote to Christians who were suffering persecution, as did the writer of the book of Hebrews.
It is the will of God that Christians suffer (Phil.1:29).

The Great Tribulation is not about Christians.
It is about the wrath of God being poured out on the ungodly and wicked of this earth; against the kings, the merchants, the rich, etc. It is God's wrath against those who would have been the persecutors of the Christians. But the Christians won't be there. They will have been raptured. Read the Book of Revelation carefully. Which groups of people suffer the most? Not the Christians (if you can identify any).

Innocent III carried out a crusade against the Albigenses, and tried to exterminate them all--an act of horrible genocide. Persecution? Yes. But that is not the wrath of God, as described in THE TRIBULATION.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Probably worthwhile to post the following again. Just to keep things in perspective.

GREATEST NATURAL DISASTERS

The 10 worst natural disasters in terms of death toll are extracted from a list of 66 compiled by David B. Hall. The complete list is available on the internet. I have yet to find an appropriate way to reference the work by Mr. Hall. Sadly, though not a natural disaster Mr. Hall fails to mention the millions of unborn children aborted world wide each year, more than 50 million slaughtered in the United states alone since the 1973 Roe v Wade decision by the Supreme Court. Strangely approximately one third of all pregnancies in this country are terminated by abortion which comports with the one third mentioned in Revelation 9:15-18.

EGYPT AND SYRIA, 1201
The deadliest earthquake in history hit the eastern Mediterranean in July 1201. Approximately 1.1 million people were killed, mostly in Egypt and Syria. This makes it close to one of the ten worst natural disasters in recorded history.


MOST OF EUROPE AND BEYOND, 1347-1350
Approximately 25 million lost their lives through the "Black Death" - the bubonic plague. Between 25 and 33% of the entire population of Europe at that time, plus millions in Asia and North Africa lost their lives.


WESTERN HEMISPHERE, MOSTLY 16TH - 18TH CENTURIES
Untold millions of lives of American Indians were lost through the various sicknesses brought over from Europe (to which they had no previous exposure or resistance.) It's very difficult to get figures on this that are not politically infected one way or another (very high or very low).


INDIA, 1769
About ten million people lost their lives from a famine in Bengal.


CHINA, 1876 - 1879
The deadliest drought in recorded history was in China between 1876 and 1879. Rivers were dry, so most crops and livestock died. There was no food production in a 1-million km2 area of 9 provinces. The drought caused the death of an estimated nine million people.


WORLD-WIDE, 1918 - 1919
Influenza pandemic takes somewhere between 35 million and 75 million lives (some reports estimate around a hundred million, but those can't be confirmed) - at least 16 million people died in India alone. This is clearly the worst disaster - at least in the last thousand years.


CHINA, 1935
Another Yellow River flood "caused 27 counties inundated and 3.4 million victims".* How many actual lives were killed we don't know. If you have facts, let us hear from you


CHINA, 1958 - 61
As many as 20 million people died in this famine. *

* We received the following response to this post

Sirs: I would ask that you consider re-characterizing the 20-30 million who died in China during the period 1959-61 as a political blunder rather than a famine. Famines are typically understood to be the result of diminished food production due to weather or other natural disasters. This was not the case in China. Food production was for the most part normal during this period. What changed was the desire of local cadre wanting to look good and reporting increased food production following Mao's politics of "right" practices. Mao's government simply took their share of the harvest, 50%. But since the reported harvest was in fact inflated, what resulted was the entire production being shipped to Beijing. This more accurately could be labeled Mao's Holocaust.* Respectfully, Doug Searles


AFRICA, 1981 - 1984
Rivers and lakes dried up from the drought that had incredible impact on twenty African nations. During one season about 20,000 were starving to death EACH MONTH.* 150 million were facing starvation if help didn't come right away. People from around the world began to respond to this crisis - but for hundreds of thousands of people, it was too late. (If you have figures for this, please let us know. When combined with other relatively recent African famines, the fugure is well over 1,000,000)


NORTH KOREA, 1995-98
Over 3 million are said to have died from famine and floods in North Korea.
 
Top