"Son of God" or "A son of the gods"? Daniel 3:25

[robycop3]

KJVOs love to criticize newer versions for reading "a son of the gods" in Daniel 3:25 while the KJV reads "the Son of God".

But...

Is the KJV correct, while the newer versions are wrong? I don't think so.

Remember, at the time he threw the Jews into the furnace, Nebuchadnezzar was a PAGAN. He was punishing the Jews for refusing to worship his IDOL. He had evidently forgotten about what Daniel had told him about THE God & was taken up in his own idolatry again.

Not even Danny knew who Jesus is. All he knew was that Messiah was coming. He didn't know Messiah's name or actual office. And certainly, Neb didn't know, either! All Neb knew was that the 4th person walking in the furnace was far more than just another man. He had no idea He was the Son of the REAL GOD. Thus, Neb said He looked like "a son of the gods".

Yes, even the highly-intelligent Nebuchadnezzar was in shock, same as we would be upon seeing men walking around inside a blast furnace. in ordinary garb with another Person who appeared to be far more than just a man. Neb saw the 3 men tossed into the furnace, and know only 3 men had been tossed in, so not only was he astounded to see them unharmed, but he had no idea where the 4th one had come from.

And again, had Neb remembered what Daniel had told him about the REAL God when he passed on God's interps of the king's dream, he wouldn't've set up an idol to begin with. And again, not even daniel knew who Jesus is.

Thus, "son of the gods" is what Neb said. The KJV men took the liberty to add their own thoughts to the translation. And when he'd recovered some from his shock, Neb said the Jews God had sent His ANGEL to rescue those men. He simply had no clue that it was Jesus, or that Jesus is the Son of God.

What say the Hebrew readers here?

 

[Deacon]

Daniel 3:25 (BHS): לְבַר־אֱלָהִֽין׃

Both work, Elohim is a plural noun often translated in the singular
Verse 28 makes it clear the being was a singular being.
A good translation would maintain the ambiguity of the original form
I like “divine being”.

Rob

 

[Yeshua1]

KJVOs love to criticize newer versions for reading "a son of the gods" in Daniel 3:25 while the KJV reads "the Son of God".

But...

Is the KJV correct, while the newer versions are wrong? I don't think so.

Remember, at the time he threw the Jews into the furnace, Nebuchadnezzar was a PAGAN. He was punishing the Jews for refusing to worship his IDOL. He had evidently forgotten about what Daniel had told him about THE God & was taken up in his own idolatry again.

Not even Danny knew who Jesus is. All he knew was that Messiah was coming. He didn't know Messiah's name or actual office. And certainly, Neb didn't know, either! All Neb knew was that the 4th person walking in the furnace was far more than just another man. He had no idea He was the Son of the REAL GOD. Thus, Neb said He looked like "a son of the gods".

Yes, even the highly-intelligent Nebuchadnezzar was in shock, same as we would be upon seeing men walking around inside a blast furnace. in ordinary garb with another Person who appeared to be far more than just a man. Neb saw the 3 men tossed into the furnace, and know only 3 men had been tossed in, so not only was he astounded to see them unharmed, but he had no idea where the 4th one had come from.

And again, had Neb remembered what Daniel had told him about the REAL God when he passed on God's interps of the king's dream, he wouldn't've set up an idol to begin with. And again, not even daniel knew who Jesus is.

Thus, "son of the gods" is what Neb said. The KJV men took the liberty to add their own thoughts to the translation. And when he'd recovered some from his shock, Neb said the Jews God had sent His ANGEL to rescue those men. He simply had no clue that it was Jesus, or that Jesus is the Son of God.

What say the Hebrew readers here?

Would this be like when the text in the Gospel can say the Centurion declared" Surely this was the Son of God, a son of a god, was righteous person etc?"

 

[SovereignGrace]

Daniel quoted a pagan king, as robycop3 already stated. I think the MV’s have it correct.

 

[TCassidy]

Not even Danny knew who Jesus is. All he knew was that Messiah was coming. He didn't know Messiah's name or actual office.

More Roby heresy.

Acts10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Person: Yeshua ha Meshiac. Jesus the Messiah. Jesus the Christ.

Office: Immanuel. God with us.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[Yeshua1]

More Roby heresy.

Acts10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Person: Yeshua ha Meshiac. Jesus the Messiah. Jesus the Christ.

Office: Immanuel. God with us.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

And yet, peter Him stated that the OT prophets did not realize all what they wrote down, and that not all was fully disclosed to them, as that was under progressive revelation, correct?

 

[robycop3]

More Roby heresy.

Acts10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Person: Yeshua ha Meshiac. Jesus the Messiah. Jesus the Christ.

Office: Immanuel. God with us.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

So, Nebuchadnezzar, a pagan king, knew who Jesus is??????????????????

I realize he was smart, but not even Daniel, likely the 3rd-wisest man ever, after Solomon & Paul, knew Messiah would be the very Son of God. But Neb knew??????????????

C'mon, Doc, you're slippin' !

 

[TCassidy]

C'mon, Doc, you're slippin' !

Typical misdirection. I never mentioned Nebuchadnezzar. As clearly stated I was correcting his error that none of the OT people knew the Lord. The bible says all the OT prophets preached Christ and salvation through his Name.

 

[Baptist4life]

You'd think roby would get tired of embarrassing himself all the time.

 

[loDebar]

Nebuchadnezzar knew God finally, as all men will when we see Him.
We must realized God has worked as He pleases apart from the Hebrews.
Melchizedek, The magi, Darius "anointed" who used of God for some purpose" ,Nebuchadnezzar Nineveh .etc He works the sinner to come to God as the preacher to prepare a sermon to present the Gospel.

Nebuchadnezzar became insane in an instant and acted as an animal for years. That is why Belshazzar , could only offer Daniel a third of the kingdom to interrupt his dream because Nebuchadnezzar was officially on the throne.


His testimony,
Dan 4:33
The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34
And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36
At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37
Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

You will probably see him in Heaven.

Daniel used Aramaic bar elahh "Son God," the thought must be preserved

Any translation that promotes otherwise is wrong

 

[tyndale1946]

You'd think roby would get tired of embarrassing himself all the time.

He doesn't seem to understand according to scripture in the OP the Eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ!... Brother Glen

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[robycop3]

Typical misdirection. I never mentioned Nebuchadnezzar. As clearly stated I was correcting his error that none of the OT people knew the Lord. The bible says all the OT prophets preached Christ and salvation through his Name.

The theme of this thread is that the KJV is wrong by quoting Nebuchadnezzar as saying the 4th person in his furnace looked like the Son of God. I totally agree that every Israeli, including the Jews in Babylon, expected Messiah (Shiloh) to come. But none of them knew He would be named Yeshua, & some referred to Him as Immanuel., "God is with us".

But Nebuchadnezzar didn't know anything about Him at that time. That's what this thread is about, not that Israel was looking for Messiah.

 

[robycop3]

You'd think roby would get tired of embarrassing himself all the time.

I'm not the least embarrassed. Nebuchadnezzar simply didn't know it was Jesus in the furnace with the men. YOU should be embarrassed for being KJVO.

 

[loDebar]

He doesn't seem to understand according to scripture in the OP the Eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ!... Brother Glen

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

He only saw the Divine as Divine and DID later recognize 'the God of Heaven". He had no reason to know scriptures from later time. He knew of Daniels and the others testimony and God working in his like.

 

[robycop3]

Nebuchadnezzar knew God finally, as all men will when we see Him.
We must realized God has worked as He pleases apart from the Hebrews.
Melchizedek, The magi, Darius "anointed" who used of God for some purpose" ,Nebuchadnezzar Nineveh .etc He works the sinner to come to God as the preacher to prepare a sermon to present the Gospel.

Nebuchadnezzar became insane in an instant and acted as an animal for years. That is why Belshazzar , could only offer Daniel a third of the kingdom to interrupt his dream because Nebuchadnezzar was officially on the throne.


His testimony,
Dan 4:33
The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34
And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36
At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37
Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

You will probably see him in Heaven.

Daniel used Aramaic bar elahh "Son God," the thought must be preserved

Any translation that promotes otherwise is wrong

All this occurred AFTER the incident of the jews' being cast into the furnace. Evidently, Neb became full of himself again, & had almost forgotten the great miracle he'd seen, even after having a dream about his coming punishment for ignoring God, interpreted for him by Daniel. At the end of his seven years of insanity, he realized GOD is in charge, not Baal (Bel to Babylonians) and apparently worshipped Him the rest of his life.

Belshazzar was the 4th king after Nebuchadnezzar. After Neb's death in 562 BC, , his son-in-lar, Nergal-Sharezar, murdered Neb's son & took the throne himself, and Belshazzar was his grandson, who was acting regent for his father Nabonidus, who had also taken the throne by murder.(and was the last king of babylon, who had to submit to the Medo-Persians.) And none of these kings after Neb worshipped God. This is reflected in their names, containing the names of idols, Marduk, god of the planet Jupiter, nergal, a solar god, and Bel, the old "Baal". (Bel was also applied in Babylon to any chief god, and even to THE God, at least in Nebuchadnezzar's time.

(Nebuchadnezzar died 562 BC; the city of Babylon fell & Belshazzar was killed 539 BC, 23 years after Neb's death.)

 

[Baptist4life]

I'm not the least embarrassed............YOU should be embarrassed for being KJVO.

Since I'm NOT KJVO....you embarrass yourself yet again. As YOU say......"you're as phony as a Ford Corvette".

 

[rlvaughn]

Friend Roby, I often wonder whether you have a number of KJVO tenants living rent free in your head! So much of what you post is pot-shots at the KJV.

Apparently the understanding of "Son of God" in Daniel 3:25 long precedes the publication of the King James Bible in 1611. According to Albert Barnes in his Notes on the Bible, "That this was the Son of God - the second person of the Trinity, who afterward became incarnate, has been quite a common opinion of expositors. So it was held by Tertullian, by Augustine, and by Hilary, among the fathers [who lived some 1300 years or so before the KJV and didn't read or speak English]; and so it has been held by Gill, Clarius, and others, among the moderns [who were not KJVO]."

In his notes Barnes clarifies our question as having two parts:

what was the idea denoted by the phrase as used by the king, or who did he take this personage to be?

the other, who [this personage] actually was?

The king's statement recorded in Daniel 3:28 helps with his understanding. There he calls the personage an angel sent by the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

 

[loDebar]

How did the old Rabbis consider this?

 

[rlvaughn]

How did the old Rabbis consider this?

On that Barnes wrote:

The Jewish writers Jarchi, Saadias, and Jacchiades suppose that it was an angel, called a son of God, in accordance with the usual custom in the Scriptures.

 

[loDebar]

On that Barnes wrote:

I believe that is in accord with Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar could not consider this Divine beings as anything else having no understanding of the Messiah