Son of God

[timtofly]

Still no answer!!
Still rewriting what I say, to claim what I did not say.
Did you say when scripture indicates names were entered in the Lamb's book of Life? Nope, you said "edited" which could mean anything on either side of the issue.
How was it "settled" if the names were not entered before creation? No answer will be forthcoming. Just more evasion in support of fiction.
BTW, Jesus promised to NEVER remove any names from His Book of Life.

It was settled in eternity all would be redeemed. All names were placed in the Lamb's book of life and the book was sealed. Do you not know what settled means?

From the verse in Revelation 13:8 do you say the book was sealed at the Cross with all names from all time?

How is that different that it includes all names since the foundation. You claim the foundation was 2,000 years ago.

The when does not make a difference if all names are still included. If you say only a few redeemed names were in the book and no names could ever be removed nor added, how is that not calvinism which says the exact same thing?

What is the point of God redeeming all of mankind and then letting humans decide when their name is placed in the book? Why seal the book so it can never be opened, until a certain moment in time? A sealed book is not sealed just to be opened. It is sealed to prevent any thing from being added or removed.

Give me one verse that states names are added. Give me one verse that states names cannot be removed.

Exodus 32:31-33

"And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."

Did Moses time travel to the first century?

Was the book already in existence since before Creation?

Jesus is the Lord God. Jesus did say as the Lord God, He would blot out those who sin against God. Are you saying they have no choice in that decision like Calvinist do?

If you take that as literal, when Moses disobeyed God, God would have had to have removed him from the Lamb's book of life anyway. What is that sin then, if humans are born sinners, that makes it necessary to be removed from this book?

 

[37818]

I thought your point was the world as known in the NT:



Did something drastic happen to make the world different then as opposed to a before the NT? Why make a point, if you are not going to use that point? I thought you were claiming the world was something different in the NT than the world created in Genesis 1:1.

Mankind existed on the 6th day. Is there a different mankind in the NT?

We disagree on the term translated as "world" in the New Testament and as to its meaning. John 3:16. 1 John 2:2.

 

[The Archangel]

At the end of Adam's 6,000 years of punishment it would be opened. Then names would be removed. Those individuals who would choose to reject God's Atonement.

Where on earth are you getting this?!

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

Where on earth are you getting this?!

The Archangel

Revelation 4. John arrives in heaven at the Day of the Lord.
Revelation 5. The Lamb's book of life is presented as sealed with 7 seals.
Revelation 6. The Lamb removes the seals.

God's Word

 

[timtofly]

We disagree on the term translated as "world" in the New Testament and as to its meaning. John 3:16. 1 John 2:2.

So the Atonement was for mankind only. Yet the world includes all creation that was and is still being affected by Adam's disobedience. Until heaven and earth pass at the GWT, God can heal the world, not just humankind.

No one is saying God Atoned for all the animals, are they? They did not rebel against God, unless you know something not found in God's Word. Yet all of creation was made subject to the sin that Adam brought into the world. Romans 8

 

[37818]

So the Atonement was for mankind only. Yet the world includes all creation that was and is still being affected by Adam's disobedience. Until heaven and earth pass at the GWT, God can heal the world, not just humankind.

No one is saying God Atoned for all the animals, are they? They did not rebel against God, unless you know something not found in God's Word. Yet all of creation was made subject to the sin that Adam brought into the world. Romans 8

Like I said, we do not agree on the meaning and use of that term translated "world." John 3:16. It just means "mankind" as it is used in the New Testament.

 

[The Archangel]

Revelation 4. John arrives in heaven at the Day of the Lord.
Revelation 5. The Lamb's book of life is presented as sealed with 7 seals.
Revelation 6. The Lamb removes the seals.

God's Word

And the 6,000 years of Adam's punishment????

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

And the 6,000 years of Adam's punishment????

The Archangel

It has been almost 6,000 years since Adam's disobedience. The 4th Commandment states mankind has 6 Days to Labor.

 

[The Archangel]

It has been almost 6,000 years since Adam's disobedience. The 4th Commandment states mankind has 6 Days to Labor.

Where do you get 6,000 years?

The Archangel

 

[percho]

Methinks

And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day; 2 Peter 3:8

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years; Rev 20:4

The day of the Lord.

Man rules for 6000 years, 6 days, the Lord rules 1000 years, the day of the Lord, then the end of something.

There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Enter into his rest.

Methinks

 

[timtofly]

Where do you get 6,000 years?

The Archangel

Jericho fell roughly 1400 years from the Cross. Abraham was called out of Ur 600 years before that. Between Abraham's age at that point, and Seth's birth is roughly 1900 years.

Is there a reason to think the Flood did not happen when it did? Do you think Shem was still alive when Abraham and Lot settled near Sodom and Gomorrha? Is history getting too crowded, because people lived for long periods of time in Scripture?

 

[The Archangel]

Between Abraham's age at that point, and Seth's birth is roughly 1900 years.

How did you come up with this number?

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

How did you come up with this number?

The Archangel

There is only one way any one can come up with that number. There are two genealogy list in Genesis. One before the Flood. One after the Flood.

 

[The Archangel]

There is only one way any one can come up with that number. There are two genealogy list in Genesis. One before the Flood. One after the Flood.

Are you aware that Ancient Near East genealogies do not always go father-to-son? A great-grandfather can be listed as begetting his great-grandson. That's how ANE genealogies work. So, to add the years in the genealogies of Genesis is to (1) miss their point entirely and (2) use them in a way that Moses (and God) never intended them to be used.

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

Are you aware that Ancient Near East genealogies do not always go father-to-son? A great-grandfather can be listed as begetting his great-grandson. That's how ANE genealogies work. So, to add the years in the genealogies of Genesis is to (1) miss their point entirely and (2) use them in a way that Moses (and God) never intended them to be used.

The Archangel

And you have not given what exactly they were intended for.

Since you seem to just be declaring what they cannot do, I will enjoy the freedom of what they are just sitting there for.

If you want to fit all the missing pieces into this "not a time puzzle", go ahead. Even if this time skips a generation, what does a generation even mean in long time frames?

If Adam had a son every 100 years is each new son the same "second" generation, or since it has been 40 or 70 or 20 or the going time span of a generation, actually the third generation after 100 years, the 6th generation after 200 years?

Do you hold to such a firm grasp on a generation being a father/offspring definition, and then say time is not relevant because generations were skipped?

Is time that relative that it cannot even be used for time?

Time is a length from point a to point b. The structure is from birth a to birth b. Do the names matter? Why would God give a false time frame between births?

 

[The Archangel]

And you have not given what exactly they were intended for.

Since you seem to just be declaring what they cannot do, I will enjoy the freedom of what they are just sitting there for.

If you want to fit all the missing pieces into this "not a time puzzle", go ahead. Even if this time skips a generation, what does a generation even mean in long time frames?

If Adam had a son every 100 years is each new son the same "second" generation, or since it has been 40 or 70 or 20 or the going time span of a generation, actually the third generation after 100 years, the 6th generation after 200 years?

Do you hold to such a firm grasp on a generation being a father/offspring definition, and then say time is not relevant because generations were skipped?

Is time that relative that it cannot even be used for time?

Time is a length from point a to point b. The structure is from birth a to birth b. Do the names matter? Why would God give a false time frame between births?

What does any of what you've written here even mean????

The Archangel

 

[timtofly]

What does any of what you've written here even mean????

The Archangel

That all you do is accuse.

You could at least state what exactly God intended with the information presented.

 

[Van]

From the verse in Revelation 13:8 do you say the book was sealed at the Cross with all names from all time?

Once again a deflection question, rather than taking a position!!

No of course I do not say the book was sealed (meaning no names were added subsequently) at the time when Christ died on the cross. That question just puts false doctrine into my mouth. Can you image if posters on this board had the integrity to actually address the posted views of others?

Scripture says names were not written (and others presumably were written) "from the foundation of the world" meaning after creation. Does that say no names were added after Christ died? Nope. So why suggest such a fallacy? To provide a smokescreen of nonsense to avoid biblical truth?

Next, did I claim this: "You claim the foundation was 2,000 years ago." No, of course not. The bible, actually the very words of Christ, indicate the period of the Old Testament is included in the period of "from the foundation of the world." So once again, rather than addressing what I actually said, you post non-stop falsehoods.

Next, you put this false doctrine into my mouth: "If you say only a few redeemed names were in the book and no names could ever be removed nor added, I did say Jesus said He would never remove any name, but I also said names were written since creation. The verses for that are Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8.

Next, did I say "humans decide when their name is placed in the book?" Nope, so yet another outrageous falsehood, posted with impunity by this fount of falsehoods. God decides whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I never said nor suggested the Lamb's book of life was sealed. Please go back and delete all these outrageous falsehood from your posts.

Final point, timtofly said, "give me one verse "that states names cannot be removed." Here it is:

Rev 3:5
‘The one who overcomes will be clothed the same way, in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.​

 

[The Archangel]

That all you do is accuse.

You could at least state what exactly God intended with the information presented.

Ah... thanks for clarifying.

It is well-knows that A.N.E. genealogies skip around and are not concerned with listing every person. In other words they show lineage, not necessarily parentage.

The genealogies are primarily about "and he died." Secondarily they are about establishing the lineage from Seth to Noah and from Shem to Abraham.

The Archangel

 

[37818]

Ah... thanks for clarifying.

It is well-knows that A.N.E. genealogies skip around and are not concerned with listing every person. In other words they show lineage, not necessarily parentage.

The genealogies are primarily about "and he died." Secondarily they are about establishing the lineage from Seth to Noah and from Shem to Abraham.

The Archangel

Luke includes Cainan, Luke 3:36 which had been dropped from the Hebrew texts.