sons of God?

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

The only scripture I can think of is;

John-1-12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Thats what Eve said when Seth was born. That God had given him to her:

Gen 4-25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

In those days, there weren't very many Sons of God, so when they mated with the daughters of Cain, it produced the mighty men of valor, the giants.

Gen 6-4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


So, the way I see it, the daughters of Cain mated with the sons of Seth, and produced Giants, be cause Seth had fantastic genes, since the human race was relatively new on earth, so that produced "super humans" as it were!

Peace,

Tam

The more I see of some pretty bizarre theories, the more I believe mine is pretty good.

Peace,

Tam

 

[music4Him]

Amen Tam! It makes since because its right.

 

[Ray Berrian]

music4Him,

You are off course with the Divinchi Code. I too, heard that the writer believed that Jesus and Mary Magdalene did this unthinkable act. Jesus was and will eternally remain sinless. I know nothing about said code. My code is the Bible and my only guide to Heaven.

The geneology of Jesus is found in Matthew chapter one. From Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, King Solomon, down to Jacob who begat Joseph the husband of Mary--the mother of our Lord.

That is one of the reasons why God said that He hated Esau because, he being a Jew married married two pagan, beautiful women named Judith the daughter of Berri the Hittite and Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite. God in his foreknowledge knew that Jacob would take the covenant seriously and would obey His father, Isaac in marrying only from Jewish stock, thereby keeping the purity of the lineage leading to Mary and the birth of Jesus.

Take not also that Jesus was born not of the Tribes of Dan, Naphtali, Gad or Asher, because these sons came to Jacob through maids given to him from his wife, Rachael.

Our Lord was born to us coming from the purity of the Israelite heritage, namely, through the Tribe of Judah.

 

[Ray Berrian]

music4Him,

You said, 'Amen Tam! It makes since because its right.'

No, it makes SENSE because it is a simple and an easy answer for you. It requires no thorough study.

Study the word Nephlihim.

Angels come in the form of men, as J. Jump, said in his first paragraph above. He (the angels) being in the form of a men undoubtedly were tempted to come closer to these beautiful women.

If you trust the stories of Christians who have seen angels they report that the can be the height of a man or much much taller, thus their superior strenth and height which brought fear to the Jewish people.

Angels are not these effeminate statues that you can see in your Bible Book Store. They are not women with beautifully colored long dresses. This is an affront to the Lord and His holy book, the Bible.

.

 

[tamborine lady]

No kidding Ray, but did you ever hear about Holy Ghost knowledge?

Eph. 1-17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

You of all people should know that if you pray and ask God, He will reveal His word to you!

That's why He sent the Holy Ghost, so we wouldn't have to do hours and hours of study!

God already knows the answers. Ask and ye shall receive.

Peace,

Tam

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
I believe the Bible teaches they were fallen angels as well.

You can believe it, but that does not make it so. It referrs here simply to believers, as I stated earlier and as Helen likewise stated.

 

[J. Jump]

So Johnv the same statement can apply to you as well can it not? You can believe that the Bible says they were believers, but it does not make it so.

If you compare Scripture with Scripture it points out that they were fallen angels.

Now the bottom line is not all of us can be right here. In the final analysis there can only be one right answer, because God is a God of Truth and the Holy Spirit led the writers to write Truth.

So we must continue to study to show ourselves approved. We must stand firm in what we believe with the delicate balance to know that we might not have it exactly right.

So with that being said I believe there to be very good evidence in Scripture that they were fallen angels however, I would be open to listening to the argument that they were believers if backed with Scriptural evidence.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
So with that being said I believe there to be very good evidence in Scripture that they were fallen angels

Mr. Jump,

I have gone back over this thread and I cannot find anyplace where you, personally, cited any scripture references.

....however, I would be open to listening to the argument that they were believers if backed with Scriptural evidence.

I, on the other hand, discussed three scripture passages when presenting my understanding of this verse.

Either you didn't see my post or you really aren't open to listening.

I'm not trying to offend you. There have been many times on the BB when I, myself, have not been open to listening to others.

This, perhaps, may too be one of those said times.

Peace, brother-
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[Kamoroso]

Why would fallen angels be called sons of God?

 

[J. Jump]

Scarlett,

I didn't give specific Scripture references because no one asked for them

And plus Ray gave some pretty good references. If you would like me to look up the specific references to where Scripture refers to angels as sons of God I would be more than happy to do that.

The first verse that you mentioned has nothing to do with whether or not angels are capable of having sex or not, so it really is a moot point. The fact that resurrected saints will not marry like the angels do not marry has nothing to do with the question in view.

One does not have to be married to have sex. We can see examples of that around us every day. So I don't think we even need to continue discussing that one

[3.] And, as a final point, Genesis chapter 5 is all about the population of the earth by humans. Generation after generation after generation.

Then into chapter 6 at verse 5, it says that "God saw that the wickedness of man was very great.......".

What was the big deal? What were they doing that was so bad?

Godliness and ungodliness were marrying each other. Where do you get that godliness and ungodliness were marrying each other? Do you get that from Genesis 6:2? If so go back and look at the Hebrew word for wives . . . it actually has four different meanings, of which one is wife. I think the actual correct translation should be and they took women for themselves.

Again I think the rest of the Bible shows that to be the correct translation and not wives.

God's people were unequally yoked with those who despised God. They weren't yoked as in marriage, but the women were definitely engaged in some activities that they shouldn't have been engaged in with some folks that that shouldn't have been doing it with . . . that's for sure!

And it got to the point in verse 5 that evil had crept into the lives of Godly people and overtaken them and "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually". And in verse 6 we see where it made God sick.

So, God decides to wipe out His entire creation, with the exception of Noah and his family.

Why would God destroy all of mankind for something that was an angel's fault? The last time I checked it took two to tango! So half of the tango involved was human beings. We don't get the indication that the women were partaking in this action against their will.

"Male" angels, if there is such a thing, As Ray has already stated angels are always presented in Scripture as masculine.

coming to earth to have sex with women? Why would God wipe the entirety of His creation for that? That's not man's fault. Seems like mankind was involved to me even if it was just 1/2 of the tango.

And why didn't He destroy all of His angels? Well, I believe that it wasn't angels having sex at all. Well this is where it gets a little deeper. If you would really like to have this question answered then I would be more than happy to share with you what I believe.

I believe that God was so ANGRY at humans, angry enough to wipe them off the face of the earth, because of righteous people intermarrying with unrighteous people and taking on all of their evil and giving up on Godliness. Still unsure as to where you are getting the intermarrying.

And it must have been p-r-e-t-t-y bad, don't you think? Probably worse than we think, but the world will actually see this atmosphere again before the Lord returns.

By the way no offense was taken at your post and hopefully no offense will be taken as to the reply

God's blessings!!!

 

[J. Jump]

Kamoroso the quick answer is it has to do with the rule of the earth.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
The first verse that you mentioned has nothing to do with whether or not angels are capable of having sex or not, so it really is a moot point. The fact that resurrected saints will not marry like the angels do not marry has nothing to do with the question in view.

See, J.J., I think that Matthew 22:30 does imply that angels are sexless. I guess what is moot in not the meaning of the verse, but the continued debate over it's meaning.
...........................................

"Godliness and ungodliness were marrying each other."

Where do you get that godliness and ungodliness were marrying each other? Do you get that from Genesis 6:2? If so go back and look at the Hebrew word for wives . . . it actually has four different meanings, of which one is wife.

I think the actual correct translation should be and they took women for themselves.

OK, let's go with your interpretation of "wives". Whether they married them or not, to me, it still implies that Godly people were entering into relationships with ungodly people to the extent that they chose evil over righteousness and turned their backs on God.
............................................

"Why would God destroy all of mankind for something that was an angel's fault?"

The last time I checked it took two to tango! So half of the tango involved was human beings. We don't get the indication that the women were partaking in this action against their will.

Well, I just don't believe that the world was destroyed by a flood because of women. I believe it was destroyed because of humanity.
.........................................

"Male" angels, if there is such a thing..."

As Ray has already stated angels are always presented in Scripture as masculine.

I'm still not convinced that angels are "male" in the sense of "procreative gender". They are referred to as "he" just as God is referred to as "He."

And you know God is not a man. He is not human at all, not in any sense of the word imaginable. He is spirit. God is our "Father" in the supernatural sense of the word, not the natural.

And Hebrews, chapter 1, says that angels are ministering "spirits".

They may be referred to as "he", but that does not make them "male" by physical characteristics or gender.
........................................

"And why didn't He destroy all of His angels?"

Well this is where it gets a little deeper. If you would really like to have this question answered then I would be more than happy to share with you what I believe.

Please do.

Peace-
S.O.
<><

 

[Jim1999]

Angels may appear in the image,the likeness.of a man, as did the angel that wrestled with Jacob.

Angels often appeared in different shapes and forms as they ministered the will of God upon His peoples.

In the case in question however, it is a people who are in the centre and not angels. They have entered into unholy alliances, and brought about the wrath of God.

The term "sons of God" does not always refer to angels in the scripture, and this bears out in other Hebraic writings.

We just can't be so definitive on this term, but simply try to understand the text at hand, and in this case the subjects are not angels, else we must ignore the context of this scripture (Gen 6:2)

Cheers,

Jim

 

[J. Jump]

Scarlett I don't have a problem (at this point) with angels being described as sexless beings. However when they take on the human form they do become sexual beings in that they have all the human parts, and therefore capable of the act.

I don't think the flood came because of women. Undoubtedly there were male children that were produced and grew up to be evil adults and so by the time the flood came all humanity could be involved save Noah and his immediate family.

As to you not being convinced that is not by job. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. I am just a vessel to be used to share His message.

It is my constant prayer that I am sharing His truth and if I am not that He will show me the area that needs to be changed.

As to the question of why the angels weren't destoryed if they played a part in it . . . the quick version of the answer is that satan was the original ruler of this earth and rebelled against God. One-third of the angels joined in his rebellion and currently rule with him from the heavenly sphere of the earth.

Mankind was placed on the earth to eventually take his place, but Adam and Eve fell before taking the positions.

So therefore God is continuing to work to redeem and restore mankind to his original position where one day he will rule and reign not by himself, but as the bride of Christ and the co-heir of Christ.

I said all that to say this. God allows the rulers he placed in position of authority to continue to hold that authority until the next ruler is on the scene and ready to take over.

Therefore these angels will one day receive their due when Christ takes over control from satan.

That's a really simple view. If you would like a more detailed look I would be more than happy to share resources with you. Just email me or send me a message and I will send you the info!

 

[partialrapture]

A lot of comments indeed, I will add...

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4
¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men , and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

sons of God are contrasted with daughters of men
of God and of men
its obvious that they were angelic beings which helps explain why they became men of renown and mighty men, which also might explain some mythology and giant pyramids

 

[Ray Berrian]

The Lord destroyed the world because of the sins of men, women, boys and girls. Violence filled the land. It reminds us of the violence in our own nation and around the world today. Then added to the mix God was angry with the propagation of these hybrid beings that were born from these 'sons of God'(angels) with the women. The context in Genesis and Job about 'sons of God' refers to angelic beings in the form of men.

If it were merely men having sex with women there would be no 'giants in the land' that the Jews feared. These Nephilim were not some form of human genetic flukes but rather were bred by angelic beings and human women.

 

[music4Him]

Ok then if giants are bred by angelic beings and human women. What about these people born after the flood up to today who would pass as a giant?
Sorry...I just can't add to the bible like that.

There is only one "Son" of God. Jesus is His name.

 

[Ray Berrian]

music4Him,

Come back to the discussion. Genesis 6:4 says, 'the sons of God' not 'Son of God.' We are pleased that you know about the Son of God our Savior.

Job 1:6--'when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. . .'

Job 2:1 'Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.'

Job 38:4-13 speaks of angelic being called, 'the sons of God' who were in attendance when the Lord created the earth and galaxies.

This being true seminaries teach that angels cohabited with earthly women and created the hybred people called Nephilim.

 

[tamborine lady]

Ray, where is that in the bible? The word "Nephilim"??

Then of course the bible does not say hybrid people either!


Peace,

Tam

 

[music4Him]

Hey Ray you just go ahead and believe that if you want. I figure we are all intitled to our opinion here on the debate fourms.