I disagree, as anyone reading will note you comment is not true in the slightest.
Your main problem - you can't refute that what I gave regarding Josephus writting establishes 'those' people I referenced as false christ's.
This doesn't refute the fact I have not stated there were 'no false christ's' only that the portion you used from Josephus was not about false christ's but that his words 'there' were understood to be more in line with false prophets, unless you think they are one and the same?
Stop playing and deal with what is given or back out. Simple and not that complicated.
Yes, I think false Christ's(Messiah) and False Prophets can be the same. However with the specific quote from Josephus, I used I can see how you could make a distinction. I apologize for using that quote again you did deal with it from your perspective. I did post this later:
There were others also besides these, that set up for deliverers, who called themselves
by the name of the Messiah. Among these, we may reckon Simon Magus, who gave out that he was some great one; yea, expressly, that he was the word of God, and the Son of God
(e),
which were known names of the Messiah; and Dositheus the Samaritan,
asserted himself to be Christ
(f); and also Menander affirmed, that no man could be saved, unless he was baptized in his name
(g); these are instances before the destruction of Jerusalem, and confirm the prophecy here delivered.
"... from the death of Herod the Great.. to the destruction of the Temple, the Jewish History is filled with the names of false Christs and false prophets who deceived both the Jews and Samaratins. None appeared before this period, and not more than one for five or six centuries after it." (Kett, 3rd Edit. vol I, o. 168)
Thomas Newton
For very soon after our Saviour's decease appeared Simon Magus, Acts viii. 9, 10,-- ' and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying This man is the great power of God! He boasted himself likewise among the Jews, as the Son of God. Of the same stamp and character was also Dositheus the Samaritan, who pretended that he was the Christ foretold by Moses.
It was then you clamed "many" means more than 15:
While there were people proclaimed themselves christ's, of which I never denied, these 'few' do not establish a 'many' context. Jesus stated MANY not 10 or 12 or 15, many shall claim to be christ.
I then posted this verse to which you chose not to comment on:
Mat 8:16 And evening having come, they brought to him many demoniacs, and he did cast out the spirits with a word, and did heal all who were ill,
Yes, I know what people wish it meant but when the majority of Greek scholars disagree with your 'interpretation' of what 'world' means here then you stand in error. This is why commentators, regarding this type of argument, should not be the material we seek out first but the language scholars who can give us the words meaning according to 'context' and not theology.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (oikoumenē) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world (oikoumenē).
Don't know what the "Greek scholars" say, all I know is what Jesus and Paul said. My guess is the Greek scholars would differ depending on their theology.
No, you have yet to tell us which prophecies they saw fulfilled.
Again, already addressed it. It is a dual prophesy.
Again, what part is dual? All of it? Part of it? Which parts were fulfilled in their lifetime? You will not address this. This, I believe, is why you no longer wish to continue.
They were looking for his literal physical return from which He was to rule and reign from in Jerusalem and is why they as Jesus about when He will re-establish it (Acts 1:6), as well as it was what the early church was looking for for nearly 350 years (300 years of which it was a view completely uncontested
What did those early fathers have to say about Matthew 24?
Clement of Alexandria (c.150- 220)
"But our Master did not prophesy after this fashion; but, as I have already said, being a prophet by an inborn and every-flowing Spirit, and knowing all things at all times, He confidently set forth, plainly as I said before, sufferings, places, appointed times, manners, limits. Accordingly, therefore, prophesying concerning the temple, He said: "See ye these buildings? Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away [Matt. 24:3]; and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin [Matt. 24:34]. . . ." And in like manner He spoke in plain words the things that were straightway to happen, which we can now see with our eyes, in order that the accomplishment might be among those to whom the word was spoken.
""The Temple was rebuilt in seven weeks: then, after an interval of sixty-two weeks,the Messiah came.then, after an interval of half a week, Nero placed an abomination in the Temple of Jerusalem: and, after another half-week, the Temple was destroyed by Vespasian."
"And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfillment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said."
Eusebius
"But the number of calamities which every where fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable,--all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus."
Either your ignorance or your willfulness not to listen is astounding here. Please show where I said this has not ever happened?
And you say I use ad hominem. We were discussing Matthew 24:6 and you said this:
2. There will be wars and rumors of wars -
IOW - their will be world wide hostility.
You also said this:
While Lightfoot is correct in what transpired with Rome (a single nation), it give no credence to the prophesy of nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom. This infers more than one nation at odds with others. The above that Lightfoot speaks to, is actaully an internal battle known as the battle of four Emperors or the Year of Four Emperors. It was a civil war of Rome and only last about a year. This was not nations against nation against nation nor kingdom against kindom.
You claim verse 6 is speaking of a "world wide" fulfillment. You deny it was world-wide in AD70 therefore it was not fulfilled! This is what I mean by decieving.
Especially in light of the fact I hold to dual fulfillment and have stated such of this verse.
You deny verse 6 was fulfilled! You claim it is world-wide! Dual means 2. If it is world-wide the second time it must be world-wide the 1st time. Otherwise it's not dual but a type.
I have already acknowledge there were wars and such in that time pertaining to what was coming but not that what was done fulfilled the prophetic statement completely especially in light of many other prophecies which speak to the same thing.
More double speak. It was fulfilled but not really.
