Sources: White House to Accept Torture Ban

[JamieinNH]

I believe we are closer on our opinions then we both think. I believe we just express our opinion a little differnt than each other, but I do believe we both mean generally the same thing.


I guess the only real difference in our opinions is I think, no matter who's life you're talking about, I believe it should be spared from torture. The 5yo that was kidnapped in your example or the kidnapper. I believe both lives are too valuable for us to torture. Interoggate<sp> yes, torture, no. I have faith that God will take care of his own, and will deal with the accused.

Again, I think we are closer to the same thought, just a different way or expressing it on this topic.

Jamie

 

[LadyEagle]

3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 1:00 a.m. ET by one of the Moderators.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

[LadyEagle]

Terrorists have great friends in the USA.

 

[JamieinNH]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Terrorists have great friends in the USA.

I believe that Terrorists have friends in all Countries.


Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


Couldn't this be part of what Jesus was talking about? In our day, the Terrorist would keep building and becoming stronger and stronger until Christian's are presecuted for their faith?

Just a thought..

Jamie

 

[Alcott]

"White House to Accept Torture Ban"

Sounds like they are accepting deodorant to sweat out the next election.

 

[hillclimber]

Well DavidsonBap, you are on the wrong side of nearly every issue, just like Daisy, but the difference is that when you make a mistatement, you always punctuate it with a "Praise Jesus" or the like.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Terrorists have great friends in the USA.

I know. Unfortunately some of our fellow citizens are apparently willing to allow torture if it suits them, thereby lowering our standards towards that of terrorists.

But there are still lots of us unwilling to do that and will stand up for human rights and decency even during a time of war.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
BiR, My understanding is that we currently have plenty of laws and rules on the books keeping us behaving as the civilized nation we are. We have never condoned torture as a tool, and the enactment of this new law adds further restrictions on information gathering, that has absolutely no positive value.

Are you implying that the ends somehow justify the means? If we are not using torture as a tool, then why did we need this legislation? And why has the President reversed his stance and come out in support for this?

The emphasis here is on the FACT that the USA does not torture prisoners, and the liberals using isolated instances to instigate these new impediments to our security are grossly troubling.

FACT?
Are you sure about that? If we "liberals" are using "isolated instances," then I guess that it isn't a FACT, is it? After all, an "isolated incident" is an incident nonetheless.......

Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by KenH:
I know. Unfortunately some of our fellow citizens are apparently willing to allow torture if it suits them, thereby lowering our standards towards that of terrorists.

But there are still lots of us unwilling to do that and will stand up for human rights and decency even during a time of war.

Wow: that is an excellent post, Ken.

Hope all is well with you and your family,
BiR (in Buffalo, NY)

 

[just-want-peace]

Unfortunately some of our fellow citizens are apparently willing to allow torture if it suits them, thereby lowering our standards towards that of terrorists.

Dern tootin! If it'll save a platoon of our Marines, I don't care what you do to him. To do it for the sadistic pleasure of torture, absolutely not!

While I do hold all life valuable and sacred, as long as I'm an American I'm going to be FAR, FAR more concerned about saving American lives than whether Muhammed is being tortured or not.

They should have thought about this prior to crashing into the twin towers.

Japan learned the hard way, and so have the terorists now.

To quote Marie Antoinett "Let 'em eat cake!"

I know that doesn't have anything to do with the subject, but it DOES reflect the distain I feel towards this topic.

Bottom line: I could not care less about whether standards are lowered or not as long as it saves American lives.

I do find it ironic that some sit in their comfortable recliners and denounce the actions of others who are sitting in a foxhole with bullets flying overhead, with the "civilized platitudes" that "We are better than them, so let's all play nice. We don't want the world to think that we can't play fair, even if "they" don't."!

As one old soldier once said, "War is hell", and being nice aint gonna win it for you!

Now if you aren't interested in winning, fine; play nice and your conqueror will then set the standards!

 

[poncho]

Another old soldier once said "war is racket" and he wrote a book with the same title that can be read for free on the net. Brave man, good book.

 

[LadyEagle]

JWP, good post. Reality, not pie in the sky, like ya'll play nice. The people who hate America are winning and this is the latest prong on the attack.

 

[JamieinNH]

Originally posted by just-want-peace:
Dern tootin! If it'll save a platoon of our Marines, I don't care what you do to him. To do it for the sadistic pleasure of torture, absolutely not!

And how it is Christian like to torture anyone for any reason?

Originally posted by just-want-peace:

While I do hold all life valuable and sacred, as long as I'm an American I'm going to be FAR, FAR more concerned about saving American lives than whether Muhammed is being tortured or not.

Naming an 'unknown' terrorist Muhammed is a very racist remark. To me, it's similar of calling someone a "towel-head", a "spic", a "sand monkey" or any other term.

I do hope this was NOT your intent, I do hope you're NOT racist.

Originally posted by just-want-peace:

They should have thought about this prior to crashing into the twin towers.

Japan learned the hard way, and so have the terorists now.

Good thing God has shown us the vision to bomb more people.. his people...

Originally posted by just-want-peace:

Bottom line: I could not care less about whether standards are lowered or not as long as it saves American lives.

And where does it show that the value of an American life is worth more or less than anyone else's? AS far as I can understand, the value of life in God's eyes doesn't take on a nationality. We are ALL God's creation.

Originally posted by just-want-peace:

I do find it ironic that some sit in their comfortable recliners and denounce the actions of others who are sitting in a foxhole with bullets flying overhead, with the "civilized platitudes" that "We are better than them, so let's all play nice. We don't want the world to think that we can't play fair, even if "they" don't."!

As one old soldier once said, "War is hell", and being nice aint gonna win it for you!

Now if you aren't interested in winning, fine; play nice and your conqueror will then set the standards!

I find it ironic that your screen name is Just-Want-Peace, but this is the stance you have taken with this.

Remember, this world isn't about winning or lossing a War in Iraq, or the War on Drugs, or any other War. It's about us serviing God, coming to Jesus our Savior, and spreading his Word.

I think sometimes people are so short-sighted that they forget that God is in control. No matter how bad, or good it is in life, God is in Control.

Jamie

 

[just-want-peace]

And how it is Christian like to torture anyone for any reason?

Didn’t say it was, but since you bring up the point—How is it Christian to allow many soldiers to be killed just because you (generic “you”) don’t want to (torture/insult/offend/discomfort/etc) a prisoner whose info can avert the deaths of these soldiers?

Naming an 'unknown' terrorist Muhammed is a very racist remark. To me, it's similar of calling someone a "towel-head", a "spic", a "sand monkey" or any other term.

I do hope this was NOT your intent, I do hope you're NOT racist.

Well, nothing racist was meant by this usage, but, if you will notice all the terrorists attacks in the past 30 or so years have been by the nationalities that use that name fairly regularly. But race wise, nothing more was meant than if I were referring to females and said “all you Janes”--!

Good thing God has shown us the vision to bomb more people.. his people...

HUH????

And where does it show that the value of an American life is worth more or less than anyone else's? AS far as I can understand, the value of life in God's eyes doesn't take on a nationality. We are ALL God's creation.

And where does it show that I said the value of an American life is worth more or less than anyone else's? I said that –“as long as I'm an American I'm going to be FAR, FAR more concerned about saving American lives than whether Muhammed is being tortured or not.” At least get your objections to my posts accurate!!

I find it ironic that your screen name is Just-Want-Peace, but this is the stance you have taken with this.

I think that you will find, for the most part, that peace lovers are the most adamant about something like this war simply to do what needs to be done and then peace will be established. Just because I do love peace, does not mean I’m willing to be walked on-that’s pacifism, not peace loving.

I think sometimes people are so short-sighted that they forget that God is in control. No matter how bad, or good it is in life, God is in Control.

We can agree on this point completely. I personally don’t see how a non-Christian handles life in all its various stages without Him as their anchor! So although we disagree on almost all, we are in total unity in the end!

MARANATHA

 

[LadyEagle]

Moderator Note: This hot topic is being moved to the Politics Forum so it won't be closed.

LE

 

[The Galatian]

It's good that Bush has finally agreed to ban the torture of prisoners. It's sad that it took a rebellion in his own party and two houses of Congress to convince him that he should do it.

Is there anyone dumb enough to believe he would have done it, if a public outcry hadn't forced him to do it?

This is how far we have fallen as a people. We are arguing whether or not to torture prisoners. Thank God an overwhelming majority of Americans are still decent human beings. Their leader lost his moral compass a long time ago.

 

[poncho]

It's not torture if we call it by another name. It's now known as GIBOF (gaining information before organ failure) some times it doesn't work out that way though. Oh well, try try again.

 

[carpro]

The enemy at home is far more dangerous than the enemy in the field.

 

[Matt Black]

...especially if the enemy at home tortures you to gain info.

 

[poncho]

Originally posted by carpro:
The enemy at home is far more dangerous than the enemy in the field.

I couldn't agree more.