Southern Gospel Heresies

[Martin]

My dad grew up with the Hemphills and I vaguely know them.

They are Pentecostal. Not everyone who sings Southern Gospel nor CCM is a Southern Baptist, you know.

Nor were all of the authors of the hymns in the hymnbooks that we idolize so much.

You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater and condemn all of Southern Gospel or CCM just because you disagree with Joel Hemphill's viewpoints.

There are people here on the BB that I believe are extremists (both ways) and people here whom I am concerned about their actual salvation. It doesn't make me condemn the entire BB for it.

==I would never throw out the baby with the bathwater. Southern Gospel can be great. However this Joel Hemphill guy, if I understand him correctly, is a heretic who is unsaved.

Allow me to correct this: Joel Hemphill IS A HERETIC. I just previewed the email he sent out this morning. I will print it and review it before posting it here but his denial of the true nature of God is very clear:

"The focus of my book isn't what Jesus is not, but rather who God the
Father is. God is immortal - Jesus was not...Hebrews teaches, and I believe that Jesus did not come in the God family
(there is only one God), or the angel family, but in the human family
(Heb. 2:7, 9). He is perfect, sinless man, but man nevertheless...If the disciples who had just seen Jesus ascend to heaven in Acts chapter
one, did not pray to him in Acts chapter four, then he is not God...Jesus was not just a body full of God, he was a man full of God. He had a
human mind, soul, spirit and will. Being full of God does not make a
person God. "

There is more but that is enough to get a taste of the man's heresy.

 

[Amy.G]

==I would never throw out the baby with the bathwater. Southern Gospel can be great. However this Joel Hemphill guy, if I understand him correctly, is a heretic who is unsaved.

Allow me to correct this: Joel Hemphill IS A HERETIC. I just previewed the email he sent out this morning. I will print it and review it before posting it here but his denial of the true nature of God is very clear:

"The focus of my book isn't what Jesus is not, but rather who God the
Father is. God is immortal - Jesus was not...Hebrews teaches, and I believe that Jesus did not come in the God family
(there is only one God), or the angel family, but in the human family
(Heb. 2:7, 9). He is perfect, sinless man, but man nevertheless...If the disciples who had just seen Jesus ascend to heaven in Acts chapter
one, did not pray to him in Acts chapter four, then he is not God...Jesus was not just a body full of God, he was a man full of God. He had a
human mind, soul, spirit and will. Being full of God does not make a
person God. "

There is more but that is enough to get a taste of the man's heresy.

"shudder"......

Wouldn't this be an example of the person who says "Lord, Lord" did we not.... and Jesus says "I never knew you"? This is an unsaved person who denies the diety of Christ, yet he is giving the impression he is Christian, even deceiving himself. What do you think? I am I off base?

 

[tinytim]

Real quick question here... Under our CCLI license, if we sing a Joel Hemphill song in church, and we report it, does he receive royalties?

 

[SBCPreacher]

I just previewed the email he sent out this morning. I will print it and review it before posting it here but his denial of the true nature of God is very clear...

I would sure like it if you would forward me a copy of that e-mail. There are a few folks I know who would be real interested in reading it.

 

[tinytim]

I sent you a PM Martin.

 

[Martin]

I would sure like it if you would forward me a copy of that e-mail. There are a few folks I know who would be real interested in reading it.

Sure, PM your email address.

 

[Martin]

"shudder"......

Wouldn't this be an example of the person who says "Lord, Lord" did we not.... and Jesus says "I never knew you"? This is an unsaved person who denies the diety of Christ, yet he is giving the impression he is Christian, even deceiving himself. What do you think? I am I off base?

==Sadly, I think you are right on target.

 

[npetreley]

Being full of God does not make a person God.

Remind him of this:

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

 

[Martin]

Another quote from Mr Joel Hemphill,

"The incarnation as taught by modern Christianity is a fable."

==From Email dated July 5, 2007

 

[tinytim]

Real quick question here... Under our CCLI license, if we sing a Joel Hemphill song in church, and we report it, does he receive royalties?

Does anyone know anything about this... sadly, I let someone else handle this, and don't know much about the CCLI license and how it works... I may have to educate myself... because, I want 0$, zilch, going to this man's ministry.

I was under the impression that CCLI pays royalties to the artists whose music we report we use in church...

 

[GLipscomb48]

One does not need to report when one sings a copyrighted song. Only when one records it.

 

[GLipscomb48]

I received an email from Joel Hemphill this morning. It contained the tract in question, but no more. The tract is in pdf format

 

[GLipscomb48]

For those who do not have the tract, here is the main part of it:

Dear Friend:

The Creed of Israel through the centuries, since their awesome encounter with the Lord God at Mt. Sinai, is stated so clearly in Deut. 6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” This is their greatest gift to mankind, monotheism, the belief that God is one (entity, being, person). Jesus affirmed this as his Creed as well in Mark 12:29-30. When asked by a scribe which commandment he considered the greatest, Jesus bypassed the obvious ten and went to the Creed of Israel: “And Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.” It seems that somewhere along the way, many in Christianity have acquired a serious misunderstanding regarding the relationship between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Please consider prayerfully the following solid Scriptural truths.
1. Jesus is the anointed, appointed, approved, virgin-born, righteous Son of God: Savior, Redeemer, Messiah and soon coming King, and the only way to God. But how can he be God? “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (I Tim. 2:5).
2. Jesus never one time said that he is “God.” He said many times, “I am the Son of God” and he is, but “Son of God” and “God” are not interchangeable terms. “Adam, which was the son of God” (Luke 3:38). When Jesus is called “God” four times in Scripture, it means that he, like Moses, the elders of Israel, and the Davidic kings, is God over all that his God, the Lord God of Heaven (his Father), has placed him over. (See Ex. 4:15-16, 7:1, Psalms 45:1-17, Psalms 82:1, 6, Heb. 1:8-9).
3. Jesus denied being God. “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God” (Matt. 19:7). Not once in Scripture is Jesus called the Lord God (Adonai), Almighty (El Shaddai), Most High (El Elyon), or Lord of Hosts (Sabaoth). Hallelujah or Alleluia (God be praised) are never spoken to Jesus, but always to God, his Father (Rev. 19:1-6).
4. Jesus denied saying he is God. “Because thou, being a man, makest thyself God” (the Pharisees speaking). Jesus answered, “I said I am the Son of God” (John 10:33, 36).
5. Jesus denied that he is the Creator. “Have ye not read that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female” (Matt. 19:4). “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female” (Mark 10:6). The prophet Malachi agrees, “Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us” (Mal 2:10). If Jesus preformed the original creation, why did God rest? (Gen. 2:3; Heb. 4:4). “By the word of the Lord (God) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth” (Ps. 33:6). “In the beginning was the word” (John 1:1).
6. Jesus and the Father are one, just as he desires believers to be one. “That they might be one, even as we are one” (not one person) (John 17:11, 22). “Not any man hath seen the Father” (Jesus speaking) (John 6:46).
7. Jesus said he is a man. “Ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God” (John 8:40). “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends” (John 15:13-14).
8. Jesus said his Father is “the one and only God”
(John 5:44 - NASB).
9. Jesus said his Father is “the only true God” (John 17:3).
10. The apostle Paul said “to us there is but one God, the Father” (I Cor. 8:6). “One God and Father of all, who is above all” (Eph. 4:6). “My Father...is greater than all,” “My Father is greater than I” (Jesus speaking) (John 10:29; 14:28). (Jesus referred to God as “Father” 170 times in the N.T.)
11. Paul said “the only wise God” is the God who is “invisible” (I Tim. 1:17). Jesus was not invisible, he was seen by thousands. (These statements by Jesus and Paul are not Trinitarian statements).
12. Paul said “God” over 500 times in his epistles and not one time was he referring to Jesus, it was always God the Father. “Paul, an apostle...by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Grace to you...from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:1, 3). “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory may give you the spirit...” (Eph. 1:3, 17). Who was Paul’s God? “But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus” (Phil. 4:19). Not Christ Jesus, but “by Christ Jesus.” Verse 20 says, “Now unto God and our Father be glory forever and ever. Amen..” “One is your Father, which is in heaven” (Jesus speaking) (Matt. 23:9).
13. Paul prayed 34 prayers in Acts and his thirteen epistles and not one of those prayers was directed to Jesus. “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you” (Col. 1:3). “I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph. 3:14). This is in accord with Jesus’ statement in John 16:23, “In that day ye shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.” So, we should pray to God the Father, in Jesus name.
14. Peter said “God” 46 times in his two epistles and not once was he speaking of Jesus. “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (I Peter 1:3). Listen to Peter’s understanding. “Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God...” (Acts 2:22). “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost...for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). (Christ) “verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, (“foreordained” not pre-existent), but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God” (I Peter 1:20-21).
15. Jesus cannot be the Supreme God, as he has a God. “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me” (Matt. 27:46)? “Go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” (this was the resurrected Jesus speaking) (John 20:17). Jesus had been in heaven with the Father for some sixty years when he said in Revelation 3:12, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God...name of my God...city of my God...out of heaven from my God.” Jesus is our brother, thus we are “Heirs of God, and joint-heirs with
Christ” (Rom. 8:17). (See Deut. 18:18; Heb. 2:11-12, 17).
to be continued...

 

[GLipscomb48]

"Can You Face Reality?' continued...

16. The ascended Jesus said in Revelation 3:14, “These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” The word “beginning” is “arche” in Greek and means “first in order of time.” Jesus was spoken by God as the “logos” (“word”), God the Father’s first creative act! Just as his birth was spoken from the “beginning” in the unchangeable plan of God, so his crucifixion was pre-ordained. He is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8).
17. Paul said that Christ “is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature” (Col. 1:15). An image is not the original but a “representative likeness.” Paul says Jesus is in the creature class, not in the Godhead. “The head of every man is Christ; and the head of Christ is God” (I Cor. 11:3). Paul says in I Cor. 15:24-28 that Christ will be eternally subject to the Father. “Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father...then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God the Father), that God may be all in all.”
Who Is The Supreme God?
To Jesus, the Apostles and Gospel writers, the Supreme God is the Lord God of the O.T. and N.T. This view was changed in the post-Biblical times by Church Councils that decided that God existed in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, “co-equal, co-eternal, of one substance,” the Holy Trinity. (Councils of Nicea 325 A.D. - Calcedon 451 A.D.). The Bible doctrine of God as one person was changed to a mistaken concept of three persons as God. The Bible contains over 10,000 singular pronouns and verbs referring to the one God (I, me, him – never we, them; “He was” not “they were”). Not one place does the Bible say “God” when it has reference to three persons.
The Historical Record. The historical record says the same. Look at these statements by the most credible non-Biblical sources.
“The doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the apostles preaching, as this (preaching) is reported in the N.T.” (Ency. International; U. of Glasgow; 1982 Ed.; Vol. 18; p. 226).
“The doctrine (Trinity) is not found in its fully developed form in the Scripture. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the O.T. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took over the doctrine of the Trinity, without serious examination.” (New International Ency.; 1916 Ed; Vol. 23; p. 47, 477).
“Today scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the Trinity as such in either the O.T. or the N.T. It would go far beyond the intention and thought-forms of the O.T. to suppose that a lateforth century...Christian doctrine can be found there. Likewise, the N.T. does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.” (Harper Collins Ency. of Catholicism; p. 564-565).
Believers in God as a single person (God the Father), were “at the beginning of the third century still forming the large majority” (Ency. Britannica; 11th Ed; Vol. 23; p. 963).
A famous Christian author, whom Dr. Billy Graham calls his favorite Evangelical writer, said in a letter to me last week: “As you know, the Trinity was one of the most hotly debated topics of the first 5 centuries, and still it has us scratching our heads.”

 

[GLipscomb48]

His view of who Jesus is is quite different than that of Thomas who upon seeing Jesus in that Upper Room and hearing His voice, said, "My Lord and My God!'

It is contrary to the prophecy of Isaiah who said Jesus was called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us.'

It is contrary to Isaiah who wrote that He would be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

 

[tinytim]

Here is another quote from Martin's email... I want to point something out...

My contention is, that if Jesus, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Peter
>knew nothing of a pre-existence and incarnation, it did not happen! John
>has been mis-understood! (Its what God said that became flesh). Listen
>to James Hastings, a noted Trinitarian Bible Scholar, “It may be that St.
>Paul nowhere names Christ ‘God.’ To a Jew the idea that a man might come
>to be God would have been an intolerable blasphemy” (Hastings Dictionary
>of the Bible: 1994; p. 707-708).

Haven't we been down this road before, when someone said that the Bible (more specifically, the KJV) was what John was referring too....

How did what God said become flesh?

This guy has totally flipped.

 

[Humblesmith]

One of the best kept secrets in CCM and Southern Gospel is the number of out and out heretics that are singers.

Philips, Craig, and Dean are Sabellians (no trinity, only an economic triunity, not an ontological Trinity), and are pastors in churches that not only deny the Trinity, but teach baptismal regeneration.

This is true. As United Pentecostals, they teach the Sabellian heresy, which is sometimes called modalism (the father became the son, then became the holy spirit). In their song "You Are God Alone" they are teaching heresy.


The UPC also teaches that unless you have spoken in tongues, you have not received the Holy Spirit and are not saved.

 

[David Lamb]

His view of who Jesus is is quite different than that of Thomas who upon seeing Jesus in that Upper Room and hearing His voice, said, "My Lord and My God!'

It is contrary to the prophecy of Isaiah who said Jesus was called 'Immanuel' meaning 'God with us.'

It is contrary to Isaiah who wrote that He would be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

True. Even the enemies of Christ recognised that Jesus claimed to be God (as they would put it). John 10.32-33:

32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."​

 

[SBCPreacher]

Hey, just thought you guys might want to know. I just received a letter from Joel Hemphill (well, not a personal letter) with an advertisement for his new book "To God Be The Glory" and a couple of the actual tracts that we've been talking about. I feel so special to be included!

So, pastors, you might want to be on the lookout for this mailing. If anyone wants to order this book, you're welcome to my order form - I'm sure not going to be buying it!

 

[Martin]

Angry Joel

Hey, just thought you guys might want to know. I just received a letter from Joel Hemphill

==Well I did get a personal email from Joel yesterday morning and he was not a happy camper. He accused me a judging his book and said that I would be judged for my rejection of the truth he was teaching. I responded with the following message:

"Mr. Hemphill,

First we are commanded by Scripture to "test the spirits" (1Jn 4:1) and to examine everything by the Word of God. Second I have read your brochure and your webpage. If those two things are representative of your book (and I must assume they are) then you are promoting serious theological error. That means I am doing the Biblical thing by being critical of, or "judging", your publication. If you deny the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ (Jn 1:1) then it is you, sir, that will one day face judgment for the rejection of the truth (2John 7-10). I still pray that I am misunderstanding your position so please let me know if I am.

In Christ,
Martin."​