Southern States Gave Auto Companies Tax-breaks and Cash for Training

[LeBuick]

What concessions did they make

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/04/AR2008120400799.html?hpid=topnews

The UAW, whose membership at the Big Three Detroit car manufacturers has dropped by half in the past five years, said it would let General Motors, Ford and Chrysler delay payments owed to a massive health-care fund for retired workers and suspend a program that pays laid off workers for up to two years.

and what concessions did the GOP want from them?

http://usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-10-house-approves-auto-bailout-bill_N.htm?imw=Y

He and other Republicans said wages and benefits for employees of Detroit's Big Three should be renegotiated to bring them in line with those paid by Japanese carmakers Toyota, Honda and Nissan in the United States.

The GOP also wanted that pay for laid off workers totally eliminated instead of suspended for two years.

I need to say that I for one don't like that pay for laid off workers clause so perhaps UAW didn't concede enough. However, it is managements job to negotiate further concessions and not that of the GOP in the Senate. If the Senate were to set the wages for the workers, then it should also set the wages for management and the banks...

 

[OldRegular]

I want to save 3 million American jobs. I love my country and want to see her people prosper.

A democrat that loves this country! That is great news, should make the back page in the NY Times and the washington Post. What do democrats in Congress think about this country. Harry Reid declared the war in Iraq lost, Senator Turban Durbin called American troops Jack Booted Thugs, Senator Swift Boat Kerry accused the American troops of rape and pillage in Iraq [Shades of Viet Nam], and our president elect accused American troops of bombing villagers in Afghanistan. And of course our president elect wanted to cut off funds for the troops in Iraq.

It is clear that many(most?) in the Republican Party do not love this nation and don't care if 3 million jobs go away.

I will bet you that most of the Military voted Republican. That is the reason dems did not want to count their votes in 2000 and 2004.

I am more interested in seing our nation recover from the Bush Administration/Republican Party-caused recession(depression?) than in following some stupid pure free market idiot-ology, I mean ideology.

The recession was caused by the democrat passed laws under Carter and Clinton forcing banks to make sub prime loans and by the "patriotic dems" in Congress like Barney and Dodd blocking efforts to reign in Freddie and Fannie.

Finally after about 80 years we are learning that the Roosevelt New Deal postponed the depression for 8 years until he got us involved in WWII. Wonder what the new president elect will do.

 

[LeBuick]

Last I read was that they would make no concessions until 2011. I thought it was a misprint. :

I believe 2011 is when that laid off workers fund would kick back in.

I agree, that fund needs to be totally eliminated but it needs to be negotiated away by management and not the Senate. In fact, management never should have agreed to something as stupid as that. If management won't do their jobs and stand up to the UAW, then why should they keep their jobs?

This was a good time for management to stand up to the union, they have the nation behind them. I forget the number Rev quoted the other day, but we can safely say most...

 

[OldRegular]

If the Republican Party had its way we would all be flipping hamburgers for a living.

Somebody had to flip them for your buddy Bill!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[LeBuick]

A democrat that loves this country!

Wow, so only the GOP can love this country? So the GOP has exclusive claims to love for country?

I will bet you that most of the Military voted Republican. That is the reason dems did not want to count their votes in 2000 and 2004.

I read somewhere that the military split demographically about the same as the nation. The only group that didn't were the American's living overseas. They went majority GOP.

 

[OldRegular]

Who is going to make an intermediate to long term investment in a vehicle of a bankrupt company? Very few people.

All those American loving democrats would don't you know!:laugh: :wavey: :thumbs:

 

[carpro]

I need to say that I for one don't like that pay for laid off workers clause so perhaps UAW didn't concede enough. However, it is managements job to negotiate further concessions and not that of the GOP in the Senate. If the Senate were to set the wages for the workers, then it should also set the wages for management and the banks...

Window dressing.

Not a single worker has given up a penny of his wages to keep his job.

 

[Revmitchell]

http://usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-10-house-approves-auto-bailout-bill_N.htm?imw=Y

This does not answer my question. It only gives a time period.

 

[OldRegular]

Yes, with state government subsidies. So there.

Auto workers don't get subsidies dontchuno!:laugh: :wavey: :thumbs:

 

[LeBuick]

Window dressing.

Not a single worker has given up a penny of his wages to keep his job.

Neither did management really. Just the CEO took a pay cut. That's just one guy. Do you want them to cut the janitors pay?

 

[OldRegular]

Nice Dem talking points. I'm not in the market for a new car right now. However, if I were I would not think twice before purchasing a Chevy or Chrysler tomorrow (I don't buy Fords after the way they treated me when servicing my 1988 Mercury Cougar).

Donald Trump says he always buys American cars and trucks. He is certainly different than super rich America hating democrate Soros.

 

[carpro]

I believe 2011 is when that laid off workers fund would kick back in.

Separate issue.

The UAW position is no wage cuts until 2011.

 

[LeBuick]

This does not answer my question. It only gives a time period.

Did you read the paragraph I quoted, they wanted the wages and benefits to be aligned with the foreign workers in the south. They also wanted that pay for laid off workers permanently eliminated.

The question was is it the Senate's position to set the workers wages?

If so, why aren't they also setting the wages of management?

 

[OldRegular]

Of course, I could mention that I helped my neighbor get a job at the Hyundai plant near here...he now can support his family.

Oh, I forgot, Ken...I hate America. My bad. I didn't mean to help anyone.

Watch it rbell! Don't get carried away!:laugh: :wavey: :thumbs:

 

[LeBuick]

Separate issue.

The UAW position is no wage cuts until 2011.

You said concessions... Wage cuts is not the only concession on the table. I showed they did make concessions, just not the ones the GOP wanted. You confirmed that with your response.

 

[carpro]

Donald Trump says he always buys American cars and trucks.

So have I, but no longer.

The UAW has convinced me.

I will never buy another Big 3 auto.

 

[OldRegular]

Ken, I've given many facts, on this thread and others.

The experiment you so greatly desire died in Albania, East Germany, Romania, and others. Sorry you missed out.

Maybe North Korea is taking applicants. Good luck finding one of their cars to drive.

I know someone who may have a used Yugo for sale.:laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

 

[carpro]

You said concessions... Wage cuts is not the only concession on the table. I showed they did make concessions, just not the ones the GOP wanted. You confirmed that with your response.

Uh huh.

But the fact remains that there have not been any wage concessions, an absolute necessity to make GM a viable company once again.

GM needs to shut down or declare bankruptcy.

Their union leeches deserve no better.

 

[OldRegular]

What are their "concessions"?

Last I read was that they would make no concessions until 2011. I thought it was a misprint.

Unfortunately it wasn't.:BangHead:

that is my understanding. It was also reported on Fox today that the deal that Corker proposed would have passed if brought to the floor but the union killed that. And I am not anti union.

 

[carpro]

that is my understanding. It was also reported on Fox today that the deal that Corker proposed would have passed if brought to the floor but the union killed that. And I am not anti union.

Reasonable people think that "concessions" refer to wages.

But as has been pointed out, the UAW has made some meaningless "concessions", but not a penny in real wages, the root cause of their lack of competitiveness with a Toyota, for instance.