Sovereignty of God in the Conversion of Saul

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If it was good enough for warfield, it's good enough for me. And all the Calvinist said

If it was good enough for Spurgion its good enough for me.

If it was good enough for Luther its good enough for me.

If it was good enough for Edwards its good enough for me.

 

[Skandelon]

This has already been addressed. Why do you keep bringing it up?

NNE is saying that God saves everybody in the same manner as he saved Saul.

But you (or the OP) are PRESUMING that God is saving everyone effectually and using Paul's story as a proof text supporting that claim, which is the issue I'm attempting to address and the reason I keep "bringing it up."

Proof that God has effectually called His messengers is NOT proof that God has effectually called those who believe their message. That point has yet to be addressed.

 

[glfredrick]

But you (or the OP) are PRESUMING that God is saving everyone effectually and using Paul's story as a proof text supporting that claim, which is the issue I'm attempting to address and the reason I keep "bringing it up."

Proof that God has effectually called His messengers is NOT proof that God has effectually called those who believe their message. That point has yet to be addressed.

I would submit that those who have been saved have been "effectually called." Would you argue otherwise?

 

[Robert Snow]

Splendid...so I have a solution. you go to your church & I will go to mine. No interaction need take place. As far as Im concerned you are anathema to me. I wouldnt even have my kids ....well you know where Im going with this.

Pretty strong word, anathema. Do you even know what it means? I certainly don't wish to see you damned, like you evidently do me. Of course, since I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, this is impossible, praise God!

I think us going to our separate churches is good, personally, I think that is why God has so many different denominations. We don't all see things the same way.

I don't see how I responded any differently toward Calvinists than you did toward non-Calvinists.

 

[Luke2427]

...
I don't see ...

You could have left it there. That would have been sufficiently descriptive of your situation.

 

[Luke2427]

You could have left it there. That would have been sufficiently descriptive of your situation.

I am surprised that there are no more takers on this.

Is everyone satisfied that God changed Saul's heart and made him willing to yield to Christ?

If so, can God not do that across the board?

 

[kyredneck]

Master Po I seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

ROFL, it's good to see you back around, grasshappah !

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are you kidding me Robert, do you even understand how insulting you are.......Why would I want anything to do with you after repeated Anti Calvinist comments? It's not that you have a difference of opinion....no no, we are well beyond that.....you are hateful to anything that Calvinists represent. To you, we are not significant, not biblical & probably heretical. I have tried on many occasions to see beyond that mindset but its apparently lost on you.

I will thank you though.....you have strengthened my resolve to be as good a Calvinist as I can be & to have nothing to do with your kind at all. And my first move was to resign from a Regular Baptist church last week & move to an independent Calvinist Church where we ALL practice Reformed Orthodox Theology. (Thanks!)

Remember that were it NOT for God's having chosen some, Heaven would have none.

 

[Luke2427]

Are you kidding me Robert, do you even understand how insulting you are.......Why would I want anything to do with you after repeated Anti Calvinist comments? It's not that you have a difference of opinion....no no, we are well beyond that.....you are hateful to anything that Calvinists represent. To you, we are not significant, not biblical & probably heretical. I have tried on many occasions to see beyond that mindset but its apparently lost on you.

I will thank you though.....you have strengthened my resolve to be as good a Calvinist as I can be & to have nothing to do with your kind at all. And my first move was to resign from a Regular Baptist church last week & move to an independent Calvinist Church where we ALL practice Reformed Orthodox Theology. (Thanks!)

Remember that were it NOT for God's having chosen some, Heaven would have none.

Yea, I have learned that with Robert there is no sense in trying to be sweet- it is wasted on him.

He, like several others, cares nothing for orthodoxy and Christian history and has the most bitter spirit towards the Reformed I have known.

He lacks the theological and historical education to speak on half or better what he comments- but that does not even slow him down.

 

[kyredneck]

Are you kidding me Robert, do you even understand how insulting you are.......Why would I want anything to do with you after repeated Anti Calvinist comments? It's not that you have a difference of opinion....no no, we are well beyond that.....you are hateful to anything that Calvinists represent. To you, we are not significant, not biblical & probably heretical. I have tried on many occasions to see beyond that mindset but its apparently lost on you.

I will thank you though.....you have strengthened my resolve to be as good a Calvinist as I can be & to have nothing to do with your kind at all. And my first move was to resign from a Regular Baptist church last week & move to an independent Calvinist Church where we ALL practice Reformed Orthodox Theology. (Thanks!)

Remember that were it NOT for God's having chosen some, Heaven would have none.

Snow is as insulting and hateful as any poster I've run accross, anywhere.

I hope your experience with the Reformed group is a good one EWF.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Snow is as insulting and hateful as any poster I've run accross, anywhere.

I hope your experience with the Reformed group is a good one EWF.

Thanks KY my friend. The church leadership is Elder driven, Orthodox & baptistic. If you dont agree with the doctrines of grace you are not accepted in the church....rather your escorted out the door. My kinda place. And here is the thing....they are growing in leaps & bounds (Talk about building a bigger church as they are full to capacity....even on snow days)LOL

 

[Luke2427]

Thanks KY my friend. The church leadership is Elder driven, Orthodox & baptistic. If you dont agree with the doctrines of grace you are not accepted in the church....rather your escorted out the door. My kinda place. And here is the thing....they are growing in leaps & bounds (Talk about building a bigger church as they are full to capacity....even on snow days)LOL

That really is a great thing!

 

[glfredrick]

Pretty strong word, anathema. Do you even know what it means? I certainly don't wish to see you damned, like you evidently do me. Of course, since I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, this is impossible, praise God!

I think us going to our separate churches is good, personally, I think that is why God has so many different denominations. We don't all see things the same way.

I don't see how I responded any differently toward Calvinists than you did toward non-Calvinists.

It is not "responding differently" toward Calvinists (or anyone else for that matter) it is "responding at all" in a negative sense. Though we are all certainly sinful on that point, we should strive for brotherly love and grace instead of thinking the worst right out of the box in every discussion.

Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

 

[David Lamb]

[snip] If you dont agree with the doctrines of grace you are not accepted in the church....rather your escorted out the door. My kinda place. And here is the thing....they are growing in leaps & bounds (Talk about building a bigger church as they are full to capacity....even on snow days)LOL

Just checking. I'm pretty sure you cannot have meant that if someone not yet converted, or a Christian who did not believe the doctrines of grace came along to a service at your church, they would not be allowed to stay and hear those very doctrines preached.

Praise God that your church building is full to capacity.

 

[webdog]

Thanks KY my friend. The church leadership is Elder driven, Orthodox & baptistic. If you dont agree with the doctrines of grace you are not accepted in the church....rather your escorted out the door. My kinda place. And here is the thing....they are growing in leaps & bounds (Talk about building a bigger church as they are full to capacity....even on snow days)LOL

Escorted out the door? Really? Now I know why this mentality exists on the Baptist Board :tear:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just checking. I'm pretty sure you cannot have meant that if someone not yet converted, or a Christian who did not believe the doctrines of grace came along to a service at your church, they would not be allowed to stay and hear those very doctrines preached.

Praise God that your church building is full to capacity.

Oh no only allowed to join. We are all for converting them to Conservative Orthodox Reformed Theology. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Escorted out the door? Really? Now I know why this mentality exists on the Baptist Board :tear:

Actually you know nothing. You only think you do. Thinking isnt knowing

 

[webdog]

Actually you know nothing. You only think you do. Thinking isnt knowing

One thing I know is you have returned to your old ways.

I know what I read hear...I don't "think" I know how to read.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One thing I know is you have returned to your old ways.

I know what I read hear...I don't "think" I know how to read.

Well now Web my bucco....you get a gold star for your hubris. Regarding my old ways, you will have to clarify what that is. Perhaps you thought that I was becoming something different? Perhaps....whatever! You sir were misinformed if thats your conjecture. However I would like to thank you, just like I did Robert & Im sure some others for my renewed conviction to reformed theology. Had it not been for your guys constantly justifying yourselves as the true religion & demeaning mine, I would have never taken a more focused look at my own beliefs. So Thanks, you are the wind beneath my Reformed Wings! :thumbs::thumbs::laugh: (Raspberry)

 

[Skandelon]

I would submit that those who have been saved have been "effectually called."

I understand that is the Calvinistic position, and as the OP reveals the effectual nature of Paul's calling is used by Calvinists as a PROOF TEXT to support this position. I'm showing the logical fallacy in that claim.

If I proved that UPS made all its messengers take an oath to be loyal to the UPS, would ANYONE assume that this proof was sufficient to suggest that all the recipients of UPS packages were also made to take this oath?

OBVIOUSLY NOT. WHY?

Because proof that the messengers are made to do something is not proof that those who receive their message are likewise made to do something. More proof is needed than what the OP provides, period.