speaking in tongues in Corinth

[UZThD]

Another poster suggested beginning a thread on tongues.

While many experts think the tongues in Corinth were ordinary languages as perhaps in Acts 2, according to the following **NON-Pentecostals** the glossolalia in Corinth were NOT the languages of men :

1)AT Robertson and Alfred Plummer in The International Critical Commentary,

2) Grosheide in The New International Critical Commentary,

3) Findlay in The Expositors' Greek NT,

4) and, Wm. Moorehead in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1974)

Of course, something is not evidenced just because someone has an opinion on it or can provide list a of adherents to a view. Convincing reasons should be given for our expressed positions. Otherwise, we are all are acting like little Protestant popes!

So, what is your view, and what is your evidence for that opinion?

[ April 21, 2005, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

[David Michael Harris]

Sure did, this should be fun

We should deal with tongues as a whole, including the modern day phenomena

I have one book on the subject called Speaking in Tongues, A Guide To Research On Glossolia. By Watson E .Mills

David

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by David Michael Harris:
this should be fun

David

===


You ARE an optimist

!

 

[David Michael Harris]

When I first became a Christian I was encouraged by my youth peers at Rhiwbina Baptist church to speak in tongues, Grace was very real to me at that time and believing spirtual things was very easy for me.

So with some prayer I finally started speaking in this strange language. I was not told that it was a necessary proof that I had the Holy Spirit but that it was a sign that I had the Spirit and that it was normal.

Thats the spiritual language that I could use in prayer to communicate things I could not otherwise do with my limited words.

Thing is, to be honest I dont have a problem with it, I still use it from time to time, but never in public it is a strictly private thing between me and God.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

What I have problems with is people who claim to be able to interpret it into intelligible words of prophesy, that I find quite dodgy. These people are actually claiming to be real live prophets of the Living God.

Hopefully that will start the ball rolling

Maybe things should be tackled with one at a time, say with the phenomena at Pentecost, that seems straight forward!

David

[ April 21, 2005, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: David Michael Harris ]

 

[UZThD]

We should deal with tongues as a whole, including the modern day phenomena


===


There is a connection to be made for sure. But I don't wish to make anyone's experience the interpreter of Scripture ; I think Scripture must be the judge of experience. Scripture must weigh the merits of the modern charismatic movement, IMO, not that movement decide the meaning of the Biblical text. In our faith and life I think we need to follow the apostolic tradition, and, much of that tradition waits for discovery by those who are willing and able to do the work to recover it.

Certainly Pentecost is related. It should be shown clearly ,if possibly, whether or not actual living languages were spoken there, and if so, whether or not the glossolalia in Corinth must be the same as that or something else.

 

[just-want-peace]

Layman's opinion!

I have yet to see where the gifts the apostles had have been cancelled. (If you have some scripture to back up that belief, please reference it.)

I do feel that much of the modern practice of "tongues" is somewhat(?) religiosity gone amok! (Some TV preachers fer instance)

I have read missionary reports of tongues being used, but in every case it was another viable language used to reach certain peoples that did not understand English.

So with all the foregoing, I see no reason that tongues , (as well as many other gifts not prevalent today) cannot be as real today as then!

IMHO, the reason we do not see these gifts manifested today is that we do not "need God" as the apostles did, because we have so much in the way of material possessions that we tend to relegate God to less than 1st place in our lives, as we consider ourselves to be so independent.

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by just-want-peace:
[QB] Layman's opinion!

I have yet to see where the gifts the apostles had have been cancelled. (If you have some scripture to back up that belief, please reference it.)


===

Please understand that I do not agree with every opinion I reference. BUT:

Greene in 1 Cor and Talbot in Bible Questions Explained and Lipscomb in Eph-Col say 1 Cor 13:8-10 means that with the completion of the NT the "sign gifts" disappeared. A similar view is repeated in BH Carroll in An Interpretation of The English Bible.

 

[Logos1560]

Victor Budgen wrote:
"1. Exactly the same word ('glossa') is used here in the Greek as in the Pentecost account, where the hearers from different regions indisputably heard a variety of genuine languages spoken.
2. In verse 10 and 11 Paul refers to the multitude of different languages, each of which has clear meaning.
3. Most conclusively of all, the quotation from Isaiah in verse 21 takes us to the time when the people of God heard what seemed to them the gibberish of the Assyrian language, but which was nevertheless authentic speech. This is seen as a parallel with the uncomprehending listener who hears a man speaking in 'tongues.' It may sound like gibberish, but it is authentic speech" (THE CHARISMATICS AND THE WORD OF GOD, p. 46).

 

[David Michael Harris]

Seems to me there are 2 types of Glossolalia

1 Speaking a foreign language not previously learnt.

2 Speaking a spiritual language.

The latter used for personal use and also a corporate use within the church if it is translated in to a known language.

There is nowhere in Scripture as far as I am concerned that says the gifts of the Holy Spirit are finished.

Jesus Christ is the same yestaday, today and forever.

He who believes in Me will do the works that I do, greater works will he do for I go to the Father.

As I said my problem is with the Churches that seem so obviously over the top. Maybe not over the top so much as to me completely phoney.

Same goes for miracles.

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

Because of the exaggerated emphasis upon glossolalia at Corinth, Paul was compelled to deal with it. He does so by recognizing it as: (a) a genuine gift of the Spirit, not to be forbidden, and acknowledges that he shares the gift himself I Cor. 14:5, 18, 39); (b) an aid to private devotion, a means of personal communion with God, an opportunity to express thoughts and feelings which could find no outlet through ordinary channels I Cor. 14:4; cf. Rom. 8:26-27); (c) a sign to unbelievers I Cor. 14:22), an evidence of divine power which, like the "sign of Jonah" (Matt. 12:39), though genuine enough, was yet unrecognized by the hardhearted and unbelieving scoffers and critics.

Paul saw the dangers in the practice even more clearly than its values. He gave it no precedence or encouragement in public worship I Cor. 14:19, 28). It is last in his list and in point of value I Cor. 12:10, 30; 14:19).

From one of my commentaries...Interpreters Bible

Notice the first line, things dont change.

David

 

[csmith]

It is obvious from the context that the Christians at Corinth were speaking "known" languages, but not known to those present.

 

[David Michael Harris]

I would agree to that in Acts but not Corinth.

David

 

[csmith]

It is my opinion that the following verses are just a few that, when using logic, indicate that human languages are the contextual issue:

I Cor. 14---

"10: There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11: Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me."

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by David Michael Harris:
When I first became a Christian I was encouraged by my youth peers at Rhiwbina Baptist church to speak in tongues...

I've not ever heard of a Baptist church encouraging tongues.

 

[David Michael Harris]

When I got saved, Cardiff was having a sort of mini revival

I got caught up in it. I went to this particular church because I wanted to get baptised quickly and it seemed the right thing to do. I could have gone to my local dead as a door nail Baptist but I chose one in a more affluent area that seemed alive.

When I look back to 1984 I see that it all happened so quickly, its as if God just swept me off my feet.

My best friend had just died from a drug overdose, my Father had just died from cancer and I was at my wits end in life anyway.

One day I was not a Christian the next day I was, thats how much of a rapid life change it was for me.

David

 

[csmith]

Originally posted by David Michael Harris:


Thing is, to be honest I dont have a problem with it, I still use it from time to time, but never in public it is a strictly private thing between me and God.

David

I Cor. 14:22
"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. : but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."

 

[David Michael Harris]

For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1 Cor 14:2

David

 

[David Michael Harris]

The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1 Cor 14:4

 

[David Michael Harris]

I hope you dont see me as an alien now

David