Speaking in Tongues Volume 3...

Do you have any idea how much it cost to run an $87,000,000.00 (yes, that is, $87 million dollars if you can't read figures that high), mansion that Benny Hinn lives in, in California looking over the Pacific Ocean?
Yes sir! Every penny that you give goes to the lying fraudulent ministry of Benny Hinn.
DHK

 

No Ray, Benny didn't build a new headquarters somewhere!!

He collected money for it, millions of $$ jn fact, but then he said "god" tild him to wait.

It was supposed to be in Dallas Texas,but so far, nothing. He's collected money for the same project more than once, but never built anything.

Tam

 

DHK,

Yes, I saw a picture of his home overlooking the Pacific Ocean. There should be enough bedrooms to house several of us as house guests so we can ask him all those crazy things you believe about this man's theology.

I do agree with you that this is off the scope as to Christian stewardship of money. This is unconscionable to my way of thinking and I am sure to 98% of Christians.

 

Sorry, my friends but he did build the new headquarters I saw it last night on the T.V. He was in the lobby trying to sell gold leafs to put your name on it so he can buy new office machines and computers. $200. was the least you could send and I am not sure if the other category was $2,500.00.

Have you ever traced to see the many missionaries he supports and how man medical buses that he has purchased for use in third world countries? Plus, medical doctors go under his blessing to do surgeries on children in foreign nation.

He will have to answer to a higher being than we human beings--namely the Lord God. If you were the Lord would you save his soul, or condemn him to Hell forever?

 

Mormon's, J.W.'s and Islam all support medical missions. Does that mean we should support them?
Benny Hinn's theology is st far off, that he does not believe in the way of salvation, neither in the Jesus of the Bible. Why anyone would support a heretic is beyond me. It is just as well that you support medical missions run by Islam.
DHK

 

DHK,

You said, 'Mormon's, J.W.'s and Islam all support medical missions. Does that mean we should support them?
Benny Hinn's theology is st far off, that he does not believe in the way of salvation, neither in the Jesus of the Bible. Why anyone would support a heretic is beyond me. It is just as well that you support medical missions run by Islam.'

 

Why do you repeatedly infer things that are not true. Perhaps this is indicative that you do not read what I have posted to you.
1. I have already told you that I am not a Calvinist. Why do you even bring it up?
2. I have also told you that I do not belong to a denomination. Why then do you bring it up.
3. I have also shared with you (against my own good judgement) my experience in the ministry. I don't need to rely on any denomination's teaching. I have been in the ministry long enough that I don't have to depend on others.

I have quoted you the beliefs of Benny Hinn. I have documented the beliefs of Benny Hinn. I have given you a link where you can research his background and lifestyle and much other information. That link was done by journalists, and others who have no axe to grind with Hinn. It was an interest story for them. It was a documentary.

Again what does Hinn believe.
1. Christ is not divine. He shed his divinity that man might become divine.
2. Those that believe in "Christ" are divine. They are little gods running around the earth, as he says.
3. The blood of Christ was not sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind.
4. Jesus went to Hell to bargain with the devil, and it was actually Satan that made an atonement for the sins of mankind.

This man is a heretic. You might as well believe in Islam than follow the teaching of Hinn. Islam believes in Christ too. They both believe in "a" Jesus. It really doesn't matter which one you choose. Neither one of them can save.
DHK

 

DHK: //The Biblical gift of tongues was common enough in the first half
of the first century.//

So you agree that in 50AD tongues were common in the city of
Corinth, Greece Province, Roman Empire?

In about 56AD Paul said:

1 Corinthians 14:2 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible
/Holman, 2003/ ):

For the person who speaks in another language
is not speaking to men but to God, since
no one understands him; however, he speaks
mysteries in the Spirit

Some say 'another language' is another known earth language.
Say that language is French, then consider this verse
specifically (instead of general):

For the person who speaks in French
is not speaking to Frenchmen but to God, since
no Frenchman understands him; however, he speaks
mysteries in the Spirit.

This is absurd. If you speak in French (if you can) then
Frenchmen should understand you.
Paul has to be speaking about something other than
another earth language.

Don't anybody look over at 1 Corinthians 13:1 and
see where Pauls talks about 'the languages ... of angels"

Atestring: //So someone give me a greek word for "gibberish"//

Obviously those who don't talk in foriegn languages like
Greek are having a hard time with your request. I'll step over
and help those who violate 1 Corinthians 14:39 by forbiding
the speaking of Unknown Tongues: the tongues of angels,
private prayer languages, etc. - they just define it away,
instead of allowing it. They allow it prior to 70AD or 96AD
/respectively 14 and 40 years after the prohibition was written
it became invalid? - I don't think so./

The Greek word is (in English, of course) 'barbari'
from which the get the English word 'barbarian'.
I guess it comes from 'bar-bar' the words of those who
don't speakgood ol'-country-boy-Greek are just a bunch of 'bar-bar'.
(recall in English if we don't understand, we stay it is
"all Greek to me" - well in Greek you say "it is all 'bar-bar' to me").

Let us place 'bar-bar' instead of 'language' or 'unknown tongue'
in Pauls defintion in 1 Corrinthians 14:2:

For the person who speaks in 'bar-bar'
is not speaking to Greekmen but to God, since
no Greekman understands him; however, he speaks
mysteries in the Spirit.

Interesting, it suddenly makes sense. 'Unknown tongues'
(AKA: estatic utterances, other languages, the tongues
of angels) is what Paul is talking about here in chapter 14.
Unknown tongues is what Paul is saying not to prihibit in
1 Corr 14:39.

Now back to "gibberish". That is a poor substitude for terms like:
'Unknown tongues', 'estatic utterances',
'other languages', the 'tongues of angels', etc.

 

DHK: //The gift of tongues
has ceased, which can be aptly demonstrated through Scripture.//

Sir, you have not even demonstrated this through
Scripture with your wrong definition of 'tongues'
let along through the description that Paul used in
1 Corinthians 14:2.

DHK: //If it has ceased then the command "Forbid not to speak
in tongues" was given only to the Corinthian Church,
or first century Christians, not to us.//

I agree. Therefore your inability to show 'it has ceased'
creates also an inability to say Paul's command in
1 Corinthisans 14:39 was for Corinth.

BTW, if you use the wrong definition, your whole 'house of cards'
logic falls. You also miss out on some of the blessings that
God has for you.

DHK: //If you are familiar
with the average Charismatic Church you already
know that. If you are familiar with the average Charismatic
Church you know they speak in gibberish, ... //

I don't know how you are familiar with such averages.
Have you done any sylabble studies compared to actual languages?
I did one. The lady said "ah ba ba .. " and once I counted
13 'ba's in a row. I know of no natural language where the
same syllable 13 times in a row has any meaning. However, Here is a case
with five in row (for humor only);

Had had had had Had
Had1 had2 had3 had4 Had5.
A lad named 'Had1' previously possessed (had2 had3)
some used (had4) fish (HADdoc).

I guess if you made a question out of it you could have
six 'had's in a row
Had Had had had had Had?

BTW, I knew Tilton was a phony. I did the math.
He said on National TV that he personally prayed for
everybody who sent him a prayer request. The year before he
had $8,000,000 gross. If the average 'gift' is $5
that is 1,600,000 prayer requests in the year.
that average of 133,000 per month, an average of
4444 a day. Assume that you can pray while you pull the
money out of the envelope and pass it to the counter.

WEll, Tilton kept appearing on TV so he didn't spend 24/7
pulling money. Say he worked his fingers to the bone
ten hours a day. That is 444 envelopes an hour
or 7 a minute. He might be able to do that, but probably not.
The man is a phony.

I've see the opertion at Oral Roberts' money factory.
(My Mother's Aunt was head Nurse at ORU and I got
the Aunt Pappy guided tour of ORU)
When the mail comes in they have a dozen ladies
(actually students who work for tuition)
down stairs opening envelopes. I'm sure Oral Roberts
makes more than Tilton, but not EIGHT TIMES MORE.

Anyway, the money is forwarded to the bank, the
prayer requests are put in laundry baskets and taken
from the basement to the upper floors of the prayer
tower. There more students (in trade for room and board) who
do actually prayer over each prayer request.

So i'd figured out that Tilton was a phony.
The numbers show he couldn't pray for all those folks.
He was caught counting money in his van and
throwing prayer requests into the bank dumpster

BTW, the going price for a prayer is a $20 bill. Send
me a $10 bill and I'll pray
at least 3 seconds for your prayer need
I've got all week this week to pray for your request,
cause i got no $10 bills last week
I just had an idea! I'll make me a money pullin'
program with a prayer module ...

Hillclimber: //Tongues are not for this dispensation of grace.
Even if they were, the churches practising it today are all wrong.//

The stats for your survey are what?
Recommend the statement " ... are mostly wrong ... " unless
you have scientific sample data.

Your statement implies you read the scripture falsely as:

... forbid not speaking in 'other languages'
unless there are corrupt churches in your area.

BTW, I took a graduate course in Lingistics once.
I suspect (knowning what I know about children learning languages)
that an unknown tongue spoken by a Chinaman would use Chineese
syllables and an unknown tongue spoken by an English speaker would
use English language syllables.

The sylables one learns age 4 to 6 are
the ones they can speak without accent.

 

Perhaps we can look at this in another way, by asking what was the reason for, and the duration of “speaking in tongues”?

REASON: Many answers are found in Acts 2. The speaker talked in a foreign tongue Greek, Latin, Persian, and other languages as shown in Acts 2, and those most likely having dialects, as we see in verse 8. Who were these 120 speaking to? They were speaking to their brethren, those of God’s nation Israel. No telling how many of the Diaspora came to Jerusalem from all the then known world. These thousands of the Law and the Prophets didn’t speak any dialect of the Hebrew language.

The speaker probably thought he was speaking in his native tongue for they did not know all of these other languages and dialects. The Holy Ghost gave utterance of those that spoke “in tongues” so the Word of God for the Jew to “repent and be baptized for remission of their sins” Verse 38, could be spread to the Jew through out the whole world for the “kingdom of God” was coming. They preached Jesus Christ and the “second great commission” to the Jew. Had the house of Israel (nation) believed on the name of Jesus Christ, repented and was baptized for their remission of sins”, then the heathen Gentile would then be preached to.

The Reason for the gift of tongues was for the purpose Jesus gave in Matthew 15:24. He came for His own. His first order of business, and priority is His Nation. He will then deal with me. Praise God for Damascus Road.

DURATION: We need to understand a couple of things concerning Israel and their God the Father, and the son of Man, Jesus. Jesus did not, nor Peter, John, or other Apostles or up standing Jew preach to or at a Gentile. And no Jew preached to a Gentile until after Damascus Road, Acts 9, and Cornelius in 10. Any right thinking Jew, those of tradition would not associate on a social basis, or even enter a Gentile home. So with this thought in mind and understanding Israel is all tied up with the number 40 will give us a time frame for the gift of tongues. Also, my ears perk-up when I hear preachers and teachers using the number 40 for the Christian today. We have nothing to do with that nation. It does not even exist today in the eyes of God.

The gift of tongues was for the purpose of getting the “gospel for the Jew to the Jew first” and not the Gentile until the “house of Israel accepted Messiah, King. The Apostles never got out of Jerusalem for many years and they preached only to the Jew. The nation was cut-off a year after Pentecost, but the Jew could still be saved “into the kingdom of God”, as were their “fathers”. But this too would end, and it would end when the “gift of tongues” ended.

The gift of tongues ended in AD 70 with the destruction of the Temple, and the City of God, Jerusalem. How do we know this? Jesus began His ministry at the age of 30, and 40 years later there is no nation of Israel, no Temple, no Jerusalem, The KIngs City. No Israel, no need for the gift of tongues.

Tongues as discussed when a Jew was a Jew was never “gibberish”, but as hillclimber says, today those of the “gibberish” speak “gibberish”. They understand themselves, but not the giver of gifts, the Holy Spirit. Christian faith, ituttut

 

DHK,

Since you attribute the 'gifts of the Spirit' as being counterfeit and of Satan, this shows me you have no confidence in the basic teachings of the Assembly of God church.

They believe in the Deity of Christ which is foundational to being Christian, but because of the above named gifts you mark all these people as being fakers and unbelievers.

With such a stance as this I have little to no confidence in all of your posted data against Pastor Hinn. It is a 'mud slinging' group that is jealous over why God is not using them with the same effectiveness. Little wonder when people attribute the things of God to the underworld of demons.

 

Excellent thesis and interview about the false teacher and his tactics to fool people and bilk them out of their money simply because they do not know their Bible.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/thesis.pdf

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/justin.pdf

 

First of all don't confuse Benny Hinn with the Assembly of God. There are many Christians in the Assembly of God, that I will not deny.
Benny Hinn is not a Christian. He is a heretic, working only for himself. You need to do your own homework on his beleifs doctrine if you don't believe me.
DHK

 

DHK,

You said, 'First of all don't confuse Benny Hinn with the Assembly of God. There are many Christians in the Assembly of God, that I will not deny.'

.

 

Out of your "five questions" I see three statements and two questions, so I will endeavour to answer the two questions for you.

It would appear that your understanding of this verse is quite poor, as Paul (according to many) was the most educated man on the face of the known world at that time. To say that he had a childish understanding is absurd. However he does speak in a metaphor. It is the metaphor that we need to understand.
If you understand the concept the perfect being the Word of God; the glass also referring to the Word of God, as it is described more clearly in James 1:23-25, then it is not difficult to see what Paul means in this context of looking into the Word of God when his understanding is not complete, for the Word of God is not complete.
Furthermore there is a reference to tongues. Tongues becomes the focus of Paul from this point onward. It's abuse in the Corinthian church had gone way out of control and had caused chaos and confusion. Paul, starting from this point is starting to address this situation.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Now look at 1Cor.3:1
1 Corinthians 3:1-2 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Paul had already addressed the Corinthians as little children (babes). They were acting as children. He says he used to be a child (spiritually). At one point he probably desired the same types of things that they did, but Barnabas and others took him aside and taught him. He also went into Arabia and was taught by the Lord directly. Every Christian goes through a growing process from childhood to maturity. The problem in Corinth was that these carnal Christians were not growing. They were remaining in their infancy. Paul was still feeding them milk!
Paul said that when he was their age spiritually, he put away childish things--the things that they were doing. It was time to grow up! It was time to put away the seeking after speaking in tongues, the showy gifts, the carnality, the pride, the false pretence of being spiritual.

You might understand it better this way:

When I was immature (spiritually), I spoke immaturely, my understanding was spiritually immature, I thought immaturely: but when I became a man (more mature as a Christian), I put away immature things (such as the desire to speak in tongues). Prophecy was so much a better gift. And then he proceeds in chapter 14 to tell how prophecy is a better gift. That is the meaning of this verse.

Now let's turn the tables. For a person who went on three different missionary journeys, preached to thousands upon thousands, established over 100 different churches, how can you even think of saying that his understanding of the gospel was not complete??

Your second question:

I am not sure I understand your question. Are you saying that your understanding is superior to the Apostles? I don't think so!
Which authors do you learn from. There are many here that learn from such authors as Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Hagin, Tilton, etc. Are those the authors you have in mind?
You see your question is ambiguous.

I learn from the Bible--Old and New Testament. It is my final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. There is no revelation beyond the Word of God, the Bible. God has given us no extra-Biblical revelation. If so, then you may as well accept the Book of Mormon as well as any other cult that claims to have extra-Biblical revelation. Why should we accept the cultish Charismatic revelation over other cults? The remains the only authoritative revelation of God.
The New Testament authors are the only authors that God that God used to write inspired Scripture. No other Scripture (other than the Old Testament) is inspired. No other "tongue" word of knowledge, prophecy, etc. is inspired. Only that which is contained in the Word of God, which we today call the Bible--all 66 books of it.
DHK

 

My statement was not incomplete. But if you want me to reword it for you I will. In other words I said: "I will not deny that there are Christians in the Assembly of God churches."
There, does that make it any clearer.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat.7:20--By their fruit you shall know them.
The fruit refers to doctrine, not numbers. I judge by what they believe. He believes in heresy: a different God, a diferent Jesus, a different salvation. His Jesus is not the same Jesus that I believe in. Like I said previously you might as well believe in the Jesus of Islam as to believe in the Jesus of Benny Hinn. Neither one of them can save.

. [/QUOTE]
What statement did I not reapond to?
DHK

 

Great points and responses DHK.

I believe Benny Hinn to be a deceiver of many in his unbelief.

I agree there are many in the Assemblies of God movement that are believers but are stiffled in their growth because of the tongues issue. I played softball for many (30+) years in church league, and the teams were changed little from year to year, maybe 3 or 4 newbies on each team each year, except the AoG where 6 or 8 would be new each year, and almost no one lasted more that 5 or 6 years. I was told that they had trouble keeping up their emotional high, as required in that church for any longer than a few years and would walk away from God for a long time afterward and sometimes never return. Emotions can be the devil's tool.

 

DHK,

You said, 'Why should we accept the cultish Charismatic revelation over other cults? The remains the only authoritative revelation of God.
The New Testament authors are the only authors that God that God used to write inspired Scripture. No other Scripture (other than the Old Testament) is inspired. No other "tongue" word of knowledge, prophecy, etc. is inspired. Only that which is contained in the Word of God, which we today call the Bible--all 66 books of it.
DHK

.

 

hillclimber,

You said, 'I agree there are many in the Assemblies of God movement that are believers but are stiffled in their growth because of the tongues issue. I played softball for many (30+) years in church league, and the teams were changed little from year to year, maybe 3 or 4 newbies on each team each year, except the AoG where 6 or 8 would be new each year, and almost no one lasted more that 5 or 6 years. I was told that they had trouble keeping up their emotional high, as required in that church for any longer than a few years and would walk away from God for a long time afterward and sometimes never return. Emotions can be the devil's tool.'