Speaking in Tongues Volume 3...

[DHK]

Originally posted by music4Him:
DHK said:
---------------------------------------------------------
The verse says:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

It does not say "drink accidently."
---------------------------------------------------------

No it don't say accidently, but you missed that big 2 letter word "if"....the rest says "they shall". So there should be a "they shall" be in place instead of that word "if".....if it is ok to drink poison.
So I has to be an accident or pre meditated by another person to harm the one that believe.

There is no "accidentally" even implied in the statement.
"If I jump off the Empire State Building the Lord will save me and no harm will come to me." Right? It is a statement with aa absolute promise. You can make any such promise to your child. "If you tidy your room you will receive a reward from me." The construct is the same in each case. The if and shall go together. It is a promise. It is conditioned on what the person does. In this case what the person does is drinking deadly poison. If they do, the Lord says it will not harm them. And that is a definite promise.
DHK

 

[tamborine lady]

Can you show me where anyone did that (drank any deadly thing) in the bible anywhere and lived???

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Can you show me where anyone did that (drank any deadly thing) in the bible anywhere and lived???

Tam

The Book of Acts is our history book of the history of the early church during the Apostolic Age. It is only 28 chapters, and does not give us all the details of all the activities of all the apostles. So, no we don't have a Biblical record of that happening, but that is not to say that it didn't.
DHK

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by music4Him:
DHK said:
---------------------------------------------------------
The verse says:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

It does not say "drink accidently."
---------------------------------------------------------

No it don't say accidently, but you missed that big 2 letter word "if"....the rest says "they shall". So there should be a "they shall" be in place instead of that word "if".....if it is ok to drink poison.
So I has to be an accident or pre meditated by another person to harm the one that believe.

There is no "accidentally" even implied in the statement.
"If I jump off the Empire State Building the Lord will save me and no harm will come to me." Right? It is a statement with aa absolute promise. You can make any such promise to your child. "If you tidy your room you will receive a reward from me." The construct is the same in each case. The if and shall go together. It is a promise. It is conditioned on what the person does. In this case what the person does is drinking deadly poison. If they do, the Lord says it will not harm them. And that is a definite promise.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Any relation to
http://www.abruzzoheritage.com/magazine/2001_04/0104_c.htm

Some of those snake charmin' folks in the US have died. So are they believers or not? If they die and Mk. 16:18 is true then they are not believers.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Or, they have simply been deceived as so many others into believing that these sign gifts are for today.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Some time ago I heard a preach tell of a missionary in a foreign land who was in his tent at night with his wife and the warriors were surrounding their tent and were about to kill them, as the missionaries well understood.

All of a sudden the warriors disappeared in the night. In the morning the missionary inquired why the warriors suddenly disappeared and left them unharmed.

One of the warriors said, "When we were about to attack you, many white robed beings with flashing swords stood between us and the missionaries."

The warrior thought they were some kind of ghosts or spirit beings. As the pastor pointed out they were angels of the Lord.

Did miracles end in 70 A.D. with the Fall of Jerusalem? No, miracles are still happening in this 21st century.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I hold no faith in storys of angels with wings. The Bible says nothing throughout its text of angels with wings.

Cherubim had wings, seraphim had wings, but angels were not described as having wings.

If angels had wings, why was it never mentioned when men saw them and described them wings were not mentioned?

Because they were not there. If they were there, do you not think that the men would have mentioned them as they would have been the most prominent feature?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Did miracles end in 70 A.D. with the Fall of Jerusalem? No, miracles are still happening in this 21st century.

OK, Diggin gave a pretty good answer about stories like that, but...

Even if it were true, why can you not get it through your head that no one, not one single person, on this thread has said that miracles have ceased!!!

It's no wonder that so many people are easily deceived!

At this point, I can no longer help but think that your misrepresentations of what has been said is malicious. I will stop short of calling it a lie for the time being, though.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:

At this point, I can no longer help but think that your misrepresentations of what has been said is malicious. I will stop short of calling it a lie for the time being, though.

It's sad isn't it. It seems to be a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts regarding miracles and healing especially. Scores of times Charismatics have been told the difference:

There is a difference between miracles and the gift of miracles.
There is a difference between healing and the gift of healing.

But even after this post, this position will be misrepresented and will have to be explained again and again.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by music4Him:
DHK said:
---------------------------------------------------------
The verse says:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

It does not say "drink accidently."
---------------------------------------------------------

No it don't say accidently, but you missed that big 2 letter word "if"....the rest says "they shall". So there should be a "they shall" be in place instead of that word "if".....if it is ok to drink poison.
So I has to be an accident or pre meditated by another person to harm the one that believe.

There is no "accidentally" even implied in the statement.
"If I jump off the Empire State Building the Lord will save me and no harm will come to me." Right? It is a statement with aa absolute promise. You can make any such promise to your child. "If you tidy your room you will receive a reward from me." The construct is the same in each case. The if and shall go together. It is a promise. It is conditioned on what the person does. In this case what the person does is drinking deadly poison. If they do, the Lord says it will not harm them. And that is a definite promise.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]That is not what the Holy Spirit teaches me, nor does your explaination line up with what the bible says. Good attempt DKK but it don't hold water.

 

[music4Him]

BTW, Diggin in da Word~......maybe I missed something but where did anyone say anything about angels having wings?

Bro. Ray, I believe the story of the angels protecting the missionary's.

2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

"You may thing that some IFB's have an agenda simply because they believe differently than you."

Good grief, I dont even know what IFB's are.

I spoke of those with an agenda against born again people and those who are up front about healing, and you said...

"CBC has done documentaries on individuals such as Benny Hinn and others. What do they have to lose? Nothing. They do documentaries on many individuals. If they are a success story on their own merit they publish their findings. If they are a fraud they publish. They are completely objective."

You've got to be kidding. The media of this world are just an extension of the world itself. And this lost hellish God hating world is not in any way "neutral" regarding the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and the born again Spirit filled people who proclaim that truth.. The "god" if this worldly system of things is at war with the true God...and the things of God...and the people of God.

"The fact is that these frauds, and others like them are a stench in the nostrils of the world, a blight on true Biblical Christianity, turning off the unsaved so that they would never go near Christianity nor touch it with a ten foot pole."

Not all of these people are frauds like Peter Popoff.(and others) And probably for every one who is turned off regarding Jesus Christ because of a fraud like Peter Popoff there are surely hundreds or thousands who are drawn towards Christ by seeing that our God is a God who really does sometimes do miracles in this day and age....through sincere and gifted born again people.

I said...

"I personally know some people who have experienced 100% complete healing through having hands layed on them by those gifted in that area, and one while having her exact sickness literally disappear as it was spoken of by Pat Robertson. These people whom I know personally where not plaqued with some psychosymatic non-disease or anything like that."

And you said...

Are the people that you know personally (not just anecdotally),..."

Yes. I know them personally.

...healed from organic diseases.

I'm not sure what you mean by "organic" deseases. One was suffering very much from...I believe...Lupus, or something like that. I believe the other had some kind of severe problem with a kidney or her liver.(maybe thats what you meant by "organic")

Through what I described they were healed. The doctors told them the same.

"Have you ever seen a lame man's leg restored."

No.

A man with a leg cut off grow back, a man who lost his hand restored with just a touch, a word of faith? Have you seen these type of miracles of healing take place? I doubt it.

No, I havent seen any of those.

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Tam,

"Mark 16:17
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;

16:18
they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

# 1- we still have believers today, so the gifts still work!

One would think that it would be almost impossible to miss that, wouldnt one?

# 2-It does NOT say they will pick up serpents on purpose, and it does not say they will drink poison on purpose.

No it doesnt. We are not to tempt God.

And btw, I'll repeat what you posted...

It also does not say...

"And these signs will follow you apostles, for the next 50 years"

It says...

"And these signs will follow those who believe"

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I do know miracles still happen today, but I do not believe any one person actually has the gift of miracles. If so, why is not this person going into hospitals and raising the people up out of sick beds? In many instances in the gospels, Jesus healed 'all that were sick'. He did not pick and choose.'

I do believe in miracles. I am walking today because of the hand of God. Doctors cannot explain why I am not still in my wheelchair, which they told me in 96 that I would be in for the rest of my life.

They cannot explain why my blood pressure drops and I pass out every time I am standing on my feet for more than 20 minutes. Nor can they explain how I am able to walk around with my BP at 91/53 when I walk into my doctor's office. But I do, God brought me out of that chair, and He sends ministering spirits to strengthen me even in my weakest moments.

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

TamborineLady said...

"# 2-It does NOT say they will pick up serpents on purpose, and it does not say they will drink poison on purpose.

To think otherwise is ridiculous.

(I fixed the mispelled word, Tam! )


And you said...

The verse says:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

It does not say "drink accidently."
To think otherwise is ridiculous. You cannot read into the Scriptures that which is not there; neither can you add to the Scriptures that which is not there. You must take the Scriptures at face value.

I cant believe that you, with all your very commendable learning, would say this!

Satan suggested to Christ, when he was in the wilderness, that He deliberatly throw Himself down from a very high place, since God promised to send angels to stop the fall.

Jesus response was...

"It is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God'."

But now you are saying that we should turn right around and "tempt the Lord our God" by deliberatlely drinking poison!

When Paul came upon the viper in the book of Acts, he didnt deliberately grab it and make it bite him.

It...was...an...accident!

I respect your much learning, but its for that reason that I am just flabbergasted that you would take this approach.

Sadly surprised,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

musicforHim...

"BTW, Diggin in da Word~......maybe I missed something but where did anyone say anything about angels having wings?"

I was wondering the same thing.

here is what the warrior said he saw...

"One of the warriors said, "When we were about to attack you, many white robed beings with flashing swords stood between us and the missionaries."

I think sometimes people are so quick to disbelieve and discredit that they dont really pay attention.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Hope of Glory]

It's because that story has been going around in many incarnations for many years. Different places, always missionary (ies) of different numbers, sometimes with wings, sometimes without (usually without, but the one I got last week had them), sometimes in the jungle, sometimes in the city, sometimes names are given sometimes they're not. I've received it in email about a dozen times in the past couple of years with different details. It's made up and spread around to "make people feel good".

Regarding accounts of angelic protection, Dr. Kenneth Gangel gives the following account which is similar to others I have heard about, especially with missionaries: A veteran missionary friend of mine (now retired) tells the story about a woman missionary alone on a compound in northern Africa during a riot by one of the local tribes. She hid in a closet and prayed as warriors advanced along the dusty road toward the houses where the white intruders lived. Amazingly, she never heard them. No one ever entered her building, and there was no evidence of any turmoil. My friend learned later that the warriors, who intended to kill everyone at the missionary compound and burn it to the ground, instead retreated when they found the compound guarded by tall warriors dressed in white and carrying large swords.

Example one

There is a stunning story of warrior angels coming to the rescue of John Patton and his wife who were missionaries to the New Hebrides Islands. One night, true to his threat, the chief and his men came with spears and torches to kill them and surrounded the little compound. The Pattons spent all night on their knees asking for God to send angels to deliver them and asking for the salvation of this tribe. With the coming of dawn, they witnessed the disbursement of the tribe. A year latter, after hav ing become a Christian, the chief told the Pattons what had happened that eventful night. He told of the host of "giants" whom they had seen protecting the commune, each one awesome, glowing with a strange light, and standing with swords drawn.

Example two

Statues of them

I tried to find a link to the missionary school that was protected from the Mau Mau's, but I couldn't get it to open.

You can do a Google and find plenty of others.

Oh, and the sign-gifts were given as signs to the unbelieving, but as has already been stated here, it was those who were believing who had the sign-gifts. God gave them to the believing as a sign for the unbelieving.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It is funny that these 'sign-gifts' are not used in people's everyday life, in the store, in the school, in the workplace, etc.

The only place you see them is in the church where the unbeliever is usually not at.

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

You said, 'There is a difference between miracles and the gift of miracles.
There is a difference between healing and the gift of healing.'

I agree with your statement above. I thought some of you gentlemen did not believe that any miracles happen in our times.

And I am not a Charismatic, I just believe I Corinthians 12 & 14 as they were written down in the N.T. Bible.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
It is funny that these 'sign-gifts' are not used in people's everyday life, in the store, in the school, in the workplace, etc.

The only place you see them is in the church where the unbeliever is usually not at.

Well I'd like to greatly differ with you on that. I see "sign gifts" being used in all the places above that you listed.