Special Thank You!!

[steaver]

Greetings All,

I have been busy the past few days and had not had a chance to catch up for awhile. You know, everyone ought to step away from the board for at least three to four days once in awhile and then come back and just read through all of the post without any intention to respond, just listen to the words and attitudes being displayed.

I want to thank all of my Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ for engaging with my OPs. All of the responses have enormously helped to confirm my position of God's Sovereignty and man's God given freewill to receive or reject God's invitation to turn and be healed.

The preconceived interpreting method of Calvinism and the glaring contradictions projecting out of Calvinist post has greatly strengthened what I already had a pretty good grasp on what was the Truth revealed in the Scriptures.

I want to thank all of my non-Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ for all of the great post defending the faith once delivered unto the saints. Iron sharpening iron :thumbs: Thanks!

And a Special Thanks to the Holy Spirit of God for opening my eyes to understanding and teaching me the Truths of salvation and regeneration.

I may not be posting quite as frequently for I feel my good works here which the Lord had prepared for me to do in advance may be coming to a close. Other good works He has for me to do I'm sure. Thanks again everybody! :wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

In this season ending episode of LEAVE IT TO STEAVER....the Steaver has been sent up to his room, by Ward and June as they discovered his online posting activities. Ward and June were shocked to see that ...The Steaver had gone online and attempted to post some theology, but when confronted by wally and Eddie....the Steaver could not give a mature answer when given the opportunity...so he was sent to his room until he could respond maturely.:thumbs:

I have been busy the past few days and had not had a chance to catch up for awhile. You know, everyone ought to step away from the board for at least three to four days once in awhile and then come back and just read through all of the post without any intention to respond, just listen to the words and attitudes being displayed.

yes...we understand now:

All of the responses have enormously helped to confirm my position of God's Sovereignty and man's God given freewill to receive or reject God's invitation to turn and be healed.

The Steaver sneaks out of his room and gets to the keyboard one more time...sadly...his theology is not quite up to par yet as he sneaks out this post.

The preconceived interpreting method of Calvinism and the glaring contradictions projecting out of Calvinist post has greatly strengthened what I already had a pretty good grasp on what was the Truth revealed in the Scriptures.

Still not seeing it...oh well lets give him a hand for his attempt:applause:

I want to thank all of my non-Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ for all of the great post defending the faith once delivered unto the saints. Iron sharpening iron :thumbs: Thanks!

No problem little steaver...some day it might even take root!

I may not be posting quite as frequently for I feel my good works here which the Lord had prepared for me to do in advance may be coming to a close

.

Sure...we understand....out of bullets, no substance, just accusations and wrong ideas......Got it.:thumbs:

 

[Van]

You will be missed Steaver. You, time and again, presented truth, but the preconceptions of Calvinists blinded them. I see Iconoclast took the time to offer disparagement, and again claim, using general statement, Calvinism is right, and scripture is wrong.

1) God never hardened hearts, everyone's heart is hardened to the max by Total Spiritual Inability.
2) Jesus never needed to teach in parables, the hearers could not have understood, believed and been healed.
3) The men of Matthew 23:13 were not effectively seeking God when they were "entering heaven."
4) God never chose for salvation anyone on the basis of faith in the truth.
5) God does not actually desire all men be saved.
6) God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, yet is not the author of sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

You will be missed Steaver. You, time and again, presented truth, but the preconceptions of Calvinists blinded them. I see Iconoclast took the time to offer disparagement, and again claim, using general statement, Calvinism is right, and scripture is wrong.

1) God never hardened hearts, everyone's heart is hardened to the max by Total Spiritual Inability.
2) Jesus never needed to teach in parables, the hearers could not have understood, believed and been healed.
3) The men of Matthew 23:13 were not effectively seeking God when they were "entering heaven."
4) God never chose for salvation anyone on the basis of faith in the truth.
5) God does not actually desire all men be saved.
6) God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, yet is not the author of sin.

Ah yes...Steavers one loyal fan....Dr. TM:laugh::laugh: Well this was touching to read Van:laugh: We have Vans twaddle and the Manechians......wonderful:thumbs:

 

[steaver]

Ah yes...Steavers one loyal fan....Dr. TM:laugh:Well this was touching to read Van:laugh: We have Vans twaddle and the Manechians......wonderful:thumbs:

Brother Icon, let me be kind and tell you that you are sounding like a school boy. You need to attack the arguments and not the one you are arguing with. When you begin attacking the person it shows you feel your arguments have been defeated. I placed one of your arguments in a checkmate awhile back and this is when you began your whining. Snap out of it brother!!!! raying: for you.......

 

[steaver]

You will be missed Steaver. You, time and again, presented truth, but the preconceptions of Calvinists blinded them. I see Iconoclast took the time to offer disparagement, and again claim, using general statement, Calvinism is right, and scripture is wrong.

1) God never hardened hearts, everyone's heart is hardened to the max by Total Spiritual Inability.
2) Jesus never needed to teach in parables, the hearers could not have understood, believed and been healed.
3) The men of Matthew 23:13 were not effectively seeking God when they were "entering heaven."
4) God never chose for salvation anyone on the basis of faith in the truth.
5) God does not actually desire all men be saved.
6) God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, yet is not the author of sin.

Thanks brother Van! You know that list is only the tip of the iceberg of errors and contradictions found in Calvinism....raying:

 

[convicted1]

Thanks brother Van! You know that list is only the tip of the iceberg of errors and contradictions found in Calvinism....raying:

The only errors that exists are yours as you misrepresent what Calvinism truly is...

 

[steaver]

The only errors that exists are yours as you misrepresent what Calvinism truly is...

Calvinism is revealed in the post of Calvinist. I only know what they reveal in their post to me and others. I ask the questions Calvinist struggle to answer, and then when they do try to answer they end up contradicting themselves over and over, then they get mad and begin the personal attacks.

Examples; brother Icon began a rant about no belief in TULIP = no sheep. After holding his feet to the fire over many post and many threads he ends up in a checkmate by me. What does he do? He begins grade school antics.

Brother Reform makes the statement that when God creates a tool it does not fail, and then uses Israel as an example of a failed tool. When questioned he refuses to answer.

You declare God loves the regenerated and hates the rest, then you declare the rich young ruler whom the scripture declares Jesus loved was un-regenerated.

Just a few examples.....

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

Brother Icon, let me be kind and tell you that you are sounding like a school boy.

Oh yes...that is so kind of you:thumbs: a school boy....yes that is about right.
Your posts provided some comic relief and I was able to have some fun at your expense. I never did take your posts seriously as the constant attack nature and lack of sincere interest did not lend itself to serious replies.

You need to attack the arguments and not the one you are arguing with.

Well now...that presupposes a person provided some points to discuss,your constant ignoring of the verses offered and mis-using of them did not lend itself to an honest exchange at all. You still never worked through the verses properly...I understand that. If you could you would believe the content.

You had your chance, you passed on it and chose your agenda which was weak.

When you begin attacking the person it shows you feel your arguments have been defeated.

So then you confess your posts were defeated from the start as that is all you sought to do:thumbs:

I placed one of your arguments in a checkmate awhile back and this is when you began your whining

.

So...you enjoy the chess terminology...nice. Your posts were the equivalent of the 3 or 4 move fools mate that can be had against a novice:thumbs: Each failed attempt was like the novice scratching his head wondering how it happened again. The worst was when you backed out against Reformed and Con 1 after they treated you with much kindness and patience and you weaseled out.....that is how it was viewed:thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Calvinism is revealed in the post of Calvinist. I only know what they reveal in their post to me and others. I ask the questions Calvinist struggle to answer, and then when they do try to answer they end up contradicting themselves over and over, then they get mad and begin the personal attacks.

It is your lack of truly understanding what Calvinism is. I am not being mean, and please don't take it to mean an insult. You have a picture of what Calvinism is, and fight against it. I did the same thing. When I truly grasped what Calvinism truly was/is, I agreed with it.

Examples; brother Icon began a rant about no belief in TULIP = no sheep. After holding his feet to the fire over many post and many threads he ends up in a checkmate by me. What does he do? He begins grade school antics.

Brother Iconoclast can speak for himself, and I'll speak for myself. The TULIP=no sheep isn't correct. It that was the case, I wouldn't have been saved for years, even after taking commuinions and feet washings, preaching, feeling God presence around me, &c.

Brother Reform makes the statement that when God creates a tool it does not fail, and then uses Israel as an example of a failed tool. When questioned he refuses to answer.

Israel was used to fulfill the purpose of bringing the Messiah to die for sinners. Once that was accomplished, there is no male nor female, no Jew nor Greek. We are both adopted into the family of God via Christ. Israel was not a failed tool. Where is the post that Brother Reformed stated what you're saying he said? I'd like to read it for myself.

You declare God loves the regenerated and hates the rest, then you declare the rich young ruler whom the scripture declares Jesus loved was un-regenerated.

Here's the thing steaver. All of God's works were known unto Him from the foundation of the world(Acts 15:18). Nothing catches Him off-guard. He, from before speaking everything into existence ~6,000 years ago, saw us rejoicing in heaven with Him. He saw the sheep IN CHRIST, even before we came into existence, thousands of years ago. He sees His sheep IN CHRIST as an already accomplished act of sovereign grace. These are the objects of His love, and that never changes. He also knew of the time we were rebellious prior to being saved. Yet, knowing He saw us IN CHRIST thousands of years before we ever existed, He still loved/loves us.

Just a few examples.....

I hope I cleared up some of the confusion. I hope you can get a clearer understanding of what Calvinism truly is, via this post...

 

[Benjamin]

Calvinism is revealed in the post of Calvinist. I only know what they reveal in their post to me and others. I ask the questions Calvinist struggle to answer, and then when they do try to answer they end up contradicting themselves over and over, then they get mad and begin the personal attacks.

Examples; brother Icon began a rant about no belief in TULIP = no sheep. After holding his feet to the fire over many post and many threads he ends up in a checkmate by me. What does he do? He begins grade school antics.

Brother Reform makes the statement that when God creates a tool it does not fail, and then uses Israel as an example of a failed tool. When questioned he refuses to answer.

You declare God loves the regenerated and hates the rest, then you declare the rich young ruler whom the scripture declares Jesus loved was un-regenerated.

Just a few examples.....

You nailed it. As a matter of fact, many of these typical grade school antics, being tiresome and anticipated, were prepared for and addressed here. As expected, Calvinists/Determinists do not seem interested in rational and ethical debate, and/or they simply don't understand the principles of critical thinking skills. Agreed, that if you nail down their reasoning ("hold their feet to the fire")...

. And yes, I agree that if they were interested in putting on their big boy pants and working toward drawing out the truth, they would.

I rarely post in this playground anymore and have found peace in putting the nonsense here behind me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh Willis....alas they are yet in rebellion against holy God. We see a similar a priori presupposition in the case of atheistic naturalists concerning creation -- it just cannot be, for there is no First Cause that supernaturally spoke the cosmos into being by fiat, ex nihilo. Here, their presupposition is that God ALWAYS gives humans the final word in their own fate -- and in a sense He does, for left to our own devices, we will ALWAYS choose to spend eternity in hell! It is into that presupposition that God breaks, giving us (John 3:16-20) LIFE and more so, graciously and mercifully, ABUNDANT life!

 

[steaver]

Oh Willis....alas they are yet in rebellion against holy God. We see a similar a priori presupposition in the case of atheistic naturalists concerning creation -- it just cannot be, for there is no First Cause that supernaturally spoke the cosmos into being by fiat, ex nihilo. Here, their presupposition is that God ALWAYS gives humans the final word in their own fate -- and in a sense He does, for left to our own devices, we will ALWAYS choose to spend eternity in hell! It is into that presupposition that God breaks, giving us (John 3:16-20) LIFE and more so, graciously and mercifully, ABUNDANT life!

Yes sure, everybody would choose eternity in hell. That's what Paul was striving for before he got saved, he wanted to spend eternity in hell for sure......that's what the Mormons want, that's what the JW's want, that's what the Jews and the Muslims want....

or it could be that what you really mean is they have no choice at all......it is what God wants.

 

[Rippon]

As expected, Calvinists/Determinists do not seem interested in rational and ethical debate, and/or they simply don't understand the principles of critical thinking skills.

You are still as modest as ever Ben. :laugh:

Speaking of your whipping boys. I am wondering if you have changed your mind on at least one subject. Back in April of 2010 the subject of one of the threads was Arnold Murray of Shepherd's Chapel. (The deceased died a year ago this month.)

You had said the following in one of your posts on 4/20/2010: "To be frank,...Hard/Determinism/Hyper Calvinism does more to fit the bill of cultic teachings, and/or is not teaching the true Word, and is more damaging than Murray's Cain/Kenite stuff in comparison."

Of course you never fleshed-out what Hard Determinism/Hyper Calvinism is, and who its proponents are and have been.

And you weren't willing to admit that Murray's false doctrines go far beyond his "Cain/Kenite stuff"

Just wondering here if you would be willing to retract these particular beliefs of yours from five years ago.

I rarely post in this playground anymore and have found peace in putting the nonsense here behind me.

Your philosophical musings have found a more receptive audience now? I hope your sentences have become more concise. You used an economy of words in this post. So maybe you're improving in that area.

 

[steaver]

It is your lack of truly understanding what Calvinism is. I am not being mean, and please don't take it to mean an insult. You have a picture of what Calvinism is, and fight against it. I did the same thing. When I truly grasped what Calvinism truly was/is, I agreed with it.

Brother Willis, the picture painted here on the BB by Calvinist is a hardened heart full of pride and arrogance and riddicule. I don't see Jesus Christ revealed in their post. This is not without exception, Reformed has been pretty Christlike thus far...

Israel was used to fulfill the purpose of bringing the Messiah to die for sinners. Once that was accomplished, there is no male nor female, no Jew nor Greek. We are both adopted into the family of God via Christ. Israel was not a failed tool. Where is the post that Brother Reformed stated what you're saying he said? I'd like to read it for myself.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=98333

Here's the thing steaver. All of God's works were known unto Him from the foundation of the world(Acts 15:18). Nothing catches Him off-guard. He, from before speaking everything into existence ~6,000 years ago, saw us rejoicing in heaven with Him. He saw the sheep IN CHRIST, even before we came into existence, thousands of years ago. He sees His sheep IN CHRIST as an already accomplished act of sovereign grace. These are the objects of His love, and that never changes. He also knew of the time we were rebellious prior to being saved. Yet, knowing He saw us IN CHRIST thousands of years before we ever existed, He still loved/loves us.

I would say Amen! This belief is held by Arminians as well. I'm not sure your camp is in total agreement with what you wrote here though. In some of the debates here on this subject Calvinist have said that God hates the person until He regenerates them. I believe Reform and Icon are two which have said as much...

 

[convicted1]

Brother Willis, the picture painted here on the BB by Calvinist is a hardened heart full of pride and arrogance and riddicule. I don't see Jesus Christ revealed in their post. This is not without exception, Reformed has been pretty Christlike thus far...

Look, I agree that there are times I do post in a rather unseemly manner. For that, I apologize.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=98333

I read it, but I never read where he stated that Israel was a tool. I may have overlooked it and failed to see it. But, he was addressing works as being an evidence of salvation. I agree that Israel failed in keeping the commandments. We all do that. But their purpose was to bring forth the Messiah to die for sinners.

I would say Amen! This belief is held by Arminians as well. I'm not sure your camp is in total agreement with what you wrote here though. In some of the debates here on this subject Calvinist have said that God hates the person until He regenerates them. I believe Reform and Icon are two which have said as much...

I am very leery of the Eternal Justification that has been bandied about by some on here. But, God deals with His sheep in a different way than He does the goats. The sheep are chastened until they get in line. God chastens them that He loves. Even before we were saved, He loved us. Christ bore our sins, our penalty, on Himself and nailed them to the cross.

But to say God loves the goats is foreign to the bible, imo...

 

[Robert William]

Thanks brother Van! You know that list is only the tip of the iceberg of errors and contradictions found in Calvinism....raying:

Birds of a feather flock together. :laugh:

 

[Van]

You will be missed Steaver. You, time and again, presented truth, but the preconceptions of Calvinists blinded them. I see Iconoclast took the time to offer disparagement, and again claim, using general statement, Calvinism is right, and scripture is wrong.

1) God never hardened hearts, everyone's heart is hardened to the max by Total Spiritual Inability.
2) Jesus never needed to teach in parables, the hearers could not have understood, believed and been healed.
3) The men of Matthew 23:13 were not effectively seeking God when they were "entering heaven."
4) God never chose for salvation anyone on the basis of faith in the truth.
5) God does not actually desire all men be saved.
6) God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, yet is not the author of sin.

And the beat goes on....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes sure, everybody would choose eternity in hell. That's what Paul was striving for before he got saved, he wanted to spend eternity in hell for sure......that's what the Mormons want, that's what the JW's want, that's what the Jews and the Muslims want....

or it could be that what you really mean is they have no choice at all......it is what God wants.

Don't put words in my mouth Steve. I never said that nor did I imply that. Now you are being deceiptful.

 

[Iconoclast]

Don't put words in my mouth Steve. I never said that nor did I imply that. Now you are being deceiptful.

that is how he posts he becomes your spokesman and tells you what you were implying or what you would say then he can respond to his own post that he himself created