Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Things were not morally good but good according to God's purpose of redemption
That is simply impossible! God created man "upright" (Eccl. 12:7) in God's MORAL image as man is a moral being and his test was a moral test. He was morally good until the day he morally violated God's law as violating God's law is violating the law of a moral God and what he did was morally wrong.
That is not what I am saying. I am saying that you, me and the whole human race existed as one undivided human nature "in adam" and when Adam acted you and I acted as we were Adam. Hence, the human nature became spiritually dead, depraved, dark and at enmity toward God. That is what you ARE by nature and that is why you come into this world already condemned and the proof is that you are subject to death even in the womb. That is precisely the argument set forth by Pau in Romans 5:12-19. He asserts that position in verse 12. He proves that position in verses 13-14 by eliminating all violations of law that could be responsible for universal death except the violation of Genesis 2:17. He then states it repeatedly over and over again "by one man's disobedience MANY be dead...condemned....made sinners."to clarify, I know we are sinners condemned already. We just can't blame Adam for our sins.
But if Adam were morally good, how could he sin? This part I have been asked by many unbelievers.That is simply impossible! God created man "upright" (Eccl. 12:7) in God's MORAL image as man is a moral being and his test was a moral test. He was morally good until the day he morally violated God's law as violating God's law is violating the law of a moral God and what he did was morally wrong.
It is the purpose of God to destroy the work of the Devil by redeeming sinners(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5:13,14
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (Like Adam) that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Does redemption (from the death) have anything to do with destroying the works of the devil?
Why was redemption (from death) the plan before the foundation of the world?
Man and thus Jesus was lower than the angels, normal unfallen angelsBut they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.Luke 20:35,36
Why was the figure, Adam, made a little lower than the angels? Why was the Son of Man made a little lower than the angels?
That is not what I am saying. I am saying that you, me and the whole human race existed as one undivided human nature "in adam" and when Adam acted you and I acted as we were Adam. Hence, the human nature became spiritually dead, depraved, dark and at enmity toward God. That is what you ARE by nature and that is why you come into this world already condemned and the proof is that you are subject to death even in the womb. That is precisely the argument set forth by Pau in Romans 5:12-19. He asserts that position in verse 12. He proves that position in verses 13-14 by eliminating all violations of law that could be responsible for universal death except the violation of Genesis 2:17. He then states it repeatedly over and over again "by one man's disobedience MANY be dead...condemned....made sinners."
So, the truth is that you are guilty for violating Genesis 2:17 because you existed and acted as one undivided human nature in one man - Adam in the best possible conditions and in the best possible condition.
we all agree man is physical and spiritual. He was not spiritually "good" but unaccountable as a baby, Not innocent. Physically as the entire physical world was without sin until Adam.. Remember. Satan and others were here but as purely spiritual beings could not affect the physicalBut if Adam were morally good, how could he sin? This part I have been asked by many unbelievers.
Please provide documentation that this is Mormon and Islam teaching.It is a trick of the devil to try to consider man innocent or perfect in he Garden and that we should return Eden and then Eden can be like Heaven . This is Mormon AND Islam end teaching
Book, chapter and verse please to prove this ridiculous assertion? I have disproven this many times now and you have nothing to say but repeat the same false assertion. He was created morally "upright" in fellowship with God and that is impossible for a spiritually dead man. Spiritual death is part of death and death did not enter the world until he sinned. Of course if you want to be ignorant then have at it.they were already spiritually dead, but after sin they were able to physically be able to die.
I know what you are saying but God says
Eze 18:20
they were already spiritually dead, but after sin they were able to physically be able to die.
I know what you are saying but God says
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
To help with those who ask - Adam was not created "morally good" or "morally evil".But if Adam were morally good, how could he sin? This part I have been asked by many unbelievers.
And there is none righteous, no not one; Other than Jesus and 2 Cor 5:21 is said of him.
And IMHO to understand that, compare 2 Cor 5:16-21 with Romans 8:1-4 and also 1 Cor 15:45,46
The last Adam came as the first Adam, died by shedding his faithful blood to the sinful flesh and was quickened to the Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, thus manifesting the righteousness of God, of which, we also can be imputed with.
And every bit of that was foreordained before the foundation of the world and would be the means by which the devil and his works, would be destroyed.
He needed destroying prior to Adam being created regardless of weather Adam had yet through sin allowed the death into the newly renewed system, world. IMHO the devil did not become a problem to God after Adam was created but was a problem before Adam was created. the first Adam would be the beginning to the solution in the flesh through the the dying on the last Adam in the flesh. Then 2 Cor 5:
Textus Receptus
ὥστε εἴ τις ἐν Χριστῷ καινὴ κτίσις τὰ ἀρχαῖα παρῆλθεν ἰδού γέγονενκαινά τὰ πάντα
Morphological GNT
ὥστε εἴ τις ἐν Χριστῷ καινὴ κτίσις τὰ ἀρχαῖα παρῆλθεν ἰδοὺ γέγονενκαινά
nope He was a condemned sinner , but the first to be a human, necessary for redemptionTo help with those who ask - Adam was not created "morally good" or "morally evil".
Adam was created without sin (God did not author Adam's sin). Adam sinned because while created in God's image he was not created as God's moral equivalent. Adam sinned.
nope He was a condemned sinner , but the first to be a human, necessary for redemption
Why do you think the physical universe exists? who is here?
I don't worry about whether or not the physial universe exists. The question never crossed my mind.nope He was a condemned sinner , but the first to be a human, necessary for redemption
Why do you think the physical universe exists? who is here?
I don't worry about whether or not the physial universe exists. The question never crossed my mind.