The "time of reformation?" (Heb. 9.10) We all know about that, but it was not the end of the age.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Spiritual Interpretation....pt6
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
- Status
That's part of the debate is it the end of the world or the end of the age
Yes but they will offer no explanation or very little explanation as to what it is. It's one thing to acknowledge this kind of language it's another thing to try to explain what it's talking about
Excellent!
TC.....
The problem is....they do not propose anything at all.....so I am provoking a response by showing how others seek to not use biblical language, but rather speculate.....didny Hal Lindsey sell 80 million copies of his book?
Someone read it....i had a copy myself
It's all about selling the sensationalism of dispensationalism, making merchandise of the flock.
Books / Prophecy & End Times - Christianbook.com
Amazon.com: Listmania!
Popular End Times Prophecy Books
It's what you get when you ignore the clear instructions, 'seal up the book', and relegate it to the future.
Last edited:
I agree and I gave you a winner on this post... Not only are these writers and books of Christian fiction making merchandise of the flock... How many false churches have risen by this End Time Prophecy Philosophy thru the ages... Too many!... All one has to do is check history... Brother Glen
I believe you gave a good futurist commentary by Gaebelein on those verses in a previous post.
Last edited:
It is the end of this present evil age which will give way to the kingdom of Christ at his appearing.
I agree and I gave you a winner on this post... Not only are these writers and books of Christian fiction making merchandise of the flock... How many false churches have risen by this End Time Prophecy Philosophy thru the ages... Too many!... All one has to do is check history... Brother Glen
The biggest apostate church in the world is staunchly Amillennial.
Do you believe we are in the Kingdom now?
Col. 1.13 shows that God's royal sovereignty and power begins in the life of the Christian at conversion. The NIV Study Bible accurately explains that in this verse the word kingdom “Does not here refer to a territory but to the authority, rule or sovereign power of a king. Here it means that the Christian is no longer under the dominion of evil (darkness) but under the benevolent rule of God's Son.” This however, does not negate the many places where the setting up of the kingdom is clearly linked to his appearing.
The individual Christ is, but until the Second Coming event, this world kingdom is in the hands of the evil one!
Actually .....
The sealed scroll is a picture book showing God's plans for the immediate future as the Apostolic age was drawing to a end.
At first the Apostles expected Jesus' victory to result in him claiming the kingdom of Israel. (Luke 24:21, Acts 1:6)
It soon became apparent that the Jewish leaders' opposition to Jesus continued against them, and against the ordinary followers of Jesus.
They needed encouragement that Jesus had indeed triumphed, and that his prophecy of complete victory, including the destruction of the temple, was proceeding according to plan.
As the seals are opened, John is given a vision of the near future -
The white horseman is the victorious crowned Christ;
the other horsemen are heavenly beings who will implement the four judgments, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth; see Ezekiel 14:21 & Zechariah 1 & 6
the fifth seal shows those martyred already, safe under the heavenly altar, praying for judgment on those still in power in the land;
the sixth seal shows very graphically the prophesied destruction falling on the rebellious people of the land, realising that their rejection of the Lamb of God occasioned the terrors they were suffering; (Luke 23:27-31)
as that destruction approaches, it is delayed until the servants of God are sealed & delivered from the four judgments. These comprise the complete remnant of believing Israel, 144,000, the salvation of many thousands being recorded in Acts. These are delivered from the great tribulation falling on the land. These Jewish believers are the firstfruits of the great multitude to be saved down the ages. The Lamb is their & our Shepherd.
The response to the seventh seal is a silent "Wow! So that's how God's promises & prophecies down the ages will be worked out." The saints are moved to pray, for deliverance & protection of the redeemed, & judgment on the wicked.
The warning trumpets begin to sound, yet they refuse to repent. (Rev. 9:20-21)
So the vials of wrath are poured out on the land & the city of Jerusalem ...
the two witnesses - Moses & Elijah, the Law & the Prophets, give their warnings until they are "killed." As Abraham had warned the rich man, "29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
The sealed scroll is a picture book showing God's plans for the immediate future as the Apostolic age was drawing to a end.
At first the Apostles expected Jesus' victory to result in him claiming the kingdom of Israel. (Luke 24:21, Acts 1:6)
It soon became apparent that the Jewish leaders' opposition to Jesus continued against them, and against the ordinary followers of Jesus.
They needed encouragement that Jesus had indeed triumphed, and that his prophecy of complete victory, including the destruction of the temple, was proceeding according to plan.
As the seals are opened, John is given a vision of the near future -
The white horseman is the victorious crowned Christ;
the other horsemen are heavenly beings who will implement the four judgments, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth; see Ezekiel 14:21 & Zechariah 1 & 6
the fifth seal shows those martyred already, safe under the heavenly altar, praying for judgment on those still in power in the land;
the sixth seal shows very graphically the prophesied destruction falling on the rebellious people of the land, realising that their rejection of the Lamb of God occasioned the terrors they were suffering; (Luke 23:27-31)
as that destruction approaches, it is delayed until the servants of God are sealed & delivered from the four judgments. These comprise the complete remnant of believing Israel, 144,000, the salvation of many thousands being recorded in Acts. These are delivered from the great tribulation falling on the land. These Jewish believers are the firstfruits of the great multitude to be saved down the ages. The Lamb is their & our Shepherd.
The response to the seventh seal is a silent "Wow! So that's how God's promises & prophecies down the ages will be worked out." The saints are moved to pray, for deliverance & protection of the redeemed, & judgment on the wicked.
The warning trumpets begin to sound, yet they refuse to repent. (Rev. 9:20-21)
So the vials of wrath are poured out on the land & the city of Jerusalem ...
the two witnesses - Moses & Elijah, the Law & the Prophets, give their warnings until they are "killed." As Abraham had warned the rich man, "29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Actual almost of that is yet to be fulfilled though! Rider on white horse antichrist, and 4 horseman yet to be known worldwide yet!
Also:
IMHO the kingdom of verse 13 is something of witch we shall inherit, see verse 12 - Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: - and of which we presently are not fit to inherit, see 1 Cor 15:50,51 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, presently we are not fit for eternal life but are presently heirs of the hope thereof, see Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
The kingdom of life and incorruptibility by the gospel 2 Tim 1:10. Paul preached the kingdom of God everywhere he went, see Acts 20:25 and began preaching the gospel by which we could be saved, with this, 1 Cor 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Jesus is presently the only one born of woman who has inherited the kingdom of God. We,by the Spirit of adoption, are currently joint heirs, see Rom 8:23 waiting for the adoption, our hope see Verse 24,25 the same hope of Titus 3:7.
To inherit eternal life is to enter the kingdom of God, follow through any and all of the gospels of the rich young ruler. Likewise our being saved, salvation, in the context of 1 Peter 1:4,5 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
IMHO, that is when you will be born into the kingdom of God.
The apostles indeed envisioned the kingdom being set up during the earthly ministry of Christ as is referenced several times. It is interesting, though, that Christ never corrected their understanding of the nature of the kingdom, but always their understanding of the timing of the kingdom. The apostles received the encouragement of the triumphant Jesus after his resurrection. When asked concerning the restoring of the kingdom of God to Israel, they were simply told, "...It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts 1:6) With the understanding you have of the kingdom, would you answer someone who asked you the same question in the same way???
If the contents of the book sealed with seven seals has reference to the destruction of Jerusalem, how is it that the innumerable multitude coming out of the great tribulation (Revelation 7:14) are of "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Revelation 7:9)? Furthermore, we see in the sixth seal "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man" (Revelation 6:15). We also see, in fact, that they recognize "the great day of his wrath" (Revelation 6:17). The Jews, except for the "remnant according to the election of grace" (Romans 11:5), did not recognize Christ during his earthly ministry or at their own demise as a nation. Neither do they to this day.
If the two witnesses are the law and the prophets, when did the beast make war with the law and the prophets so as to silence their testimony (Revelation 11:7)? When were their dead bodies denied proper burial (Revelation 11:9)? I would certainly not agree with J. Stuart Russell (Preterist) that the two witnesses are James and Peter, but he does make a good case that by the two witnesses we are to understand two literal personages.
I will not say anything more about the 144,000 except that I believe they are Jews, literally, as opposed to the innumerable multitude John sees of "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Revelation 7:9).
I completely agree. However, we are now subjects of that kingdom which we will inherit when it is set up.
Jesus has been speaking about the things pertaining to the kingdom of God but it seems he had omitted any suggestion about restoring the kingdom to Israel. Hence their question:
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
They did not have Holy Spirit understanding yet. If we refer back to his last week teaching, Jerusalem & the temple would be destroyed within the lifetime of this generation. Some unknown time thereafter he would return for the passing of heaven & earth, & take account of his servants. It's not for them, or us, to know the timing. Their job, & now ours, is to spread the good news far & wide as Jesus' witnesses. There is no implied restoration of the earthly kingdom of Israel. Be faithful, watch & pray.
At Pentecost Peter declared, that Jesus is on the throne of David. In effect, the prophesied kingdom has arrived.
Then in Acts 3 he enlarges on Moses' warning:
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
There is no kingdom for those who reject the King. As you read through the Letters, there is no suggestion of a restored Jewish kingdom.
Notice 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude. John is shown the deliverance of the Jerusalem believers, firstfruits, & sees also that all persecuted believers will be delivered & brought to glory. John is writing to believers in Asia, companions in tribulation. Just as the Jerusalem believers would be delivered from the great tribulation so would they. We learn from fulfilled prophecy.
John writes that they will realise that the reason for their imminent destruction, their terror is the wrath of the Lamb:
Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Jesus warned the women of Jerusalem that this would happen. The kings of the earth/land of the vision may include the idolatrous kings who led Israel & Judah astray, & whose sins were punished at the wrath on this generation:
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Preachers of the Law & Prophets (including James) were killed - & vindicated by the judgment on the city.
Throughout history Jews (kindreds=tribes) have come to Christ & been added to - NOT opposed to - the great multitude.
What is this kingdom that the "sons of the kingdom" were cast out from and given to others? Is it still yet to come in the far distant future?
1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying,
2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3
17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4
10 And when Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21
28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Lu 13
"Always". How many times other than the single one you referenced?
- Status