Spiritual Interpretation....pt6

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Consult your system manual. How does your spin on this passage harmonize with:

19..... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever.... Mt 21

20 Rejoice over her [Deuteronomy 28:63], thou heaven, and ye saints, and ye apostles, and ye prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her.
21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood [Matthew 23:35] of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah, which he will work for you to-day: for the Egyptians [Revelation 11:8] whom ye have seen to-day, ye shall see them again no more for ever. Ex 14

And the very same language is also used of Tyre in the Old Testament so I fail to understand your point. I would not stress too much the word "forever" since you do not take it literal yourself in most cases as you assign most judgment passages to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Right?

 

[Yeshua1]

And the very same language is also used of Tyre in the Old Testament so I fail to understand your point. I would not stress too much the word "forever" since you do not take it literal yourself in most cases as you assign most judgment passages to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Right?

God stated that His covenant promises to Israel is eternal, correct?

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

God stated that His covenant promises to Israel is eternal, correct?

The Greek word aionios translated "eternal," "everlasting," "for ever" etc. often gets its meaning from what it modifies. Many references could be given. Furthermore, I do not imagine that the holy land will endure 2 Pe. 3.10-12!

 

[kyredneck]

And the very same language is also used of Tyre in the Old Testament so I fail to understand your point.

Lol. So? What? I'll take that as a red herring 'no answer'.

You actually believe God's going to 'restore the kingdom to Israel', split the 'one new man', and again have two instead?

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Lol. So? What? I'll take that as a red herring 'no answer'.

You actually believe God's going to 'restore the kingdom to Israel', split the 'one new man', and again have two instead?

"So what?" is my point exactly. You keep quoting it as if it proves that Rev. 17-18 concerns the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Where are you getting the idea that the "one new man" will become two if the Lord restores again the kingdom to Israel? I certainly have not stated anything to that effect. Have you ever heard of a Primitive Baptist elder by the name of C.C. Morris? There are some very good articles on the subject of the kingdom of God published by him in "The Remnant." He is one of the few who have not gone off the deep end with "types and shadows." His exegesis is very sound and consistent in the area of eschatology. I also included two other links that might be of interest to you from "The Remnant" website.

The Original Old School Baptist Website
An Answer to a Cry for Help
Conditional Time Salvation 2

 

[kyredneck]

Rev. 17-18 concerns the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Precisely. It does.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Precisely. It does.

The language you keep quoting does not prove it, but you keep quoting it as if it does.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. -Isaiah 23:15-17

Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. -Nahum 3:4; cf. Rev. 18:23

 

[kyredneck]

The language you keep quoting does not prove it, but you keep quoting it as if it does.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. -Isaiah 23:15-17

Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. -Nahum 3:4; cf. Rev. 18:23

It's stupidity if you think you're going to convince me that the judgement of the Great Harlot in Revelation is the judgement of Tyre. Like I said, a red herring. A very lame red herring.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

It's stupidity if you think you're going to convince me that the judgement of the Great Harlot in Revelation is the judgement of Tyre. Like I said, a red herring. A very lame red herring.

I never claimed that Rev. 17-18 was about Tyre. I merely pointed out the reference to show that other cities, even foreign ones, are referred to as "harlots." Therefore, Rev. 17-18 must not necessarily be Jerusalem as Preterists claim. What manifests stupidity more? That I actually presented passages of scripture that demonstrate other interpretations are possible or that you actually thought I was identifying the city in Rev. 17-18 as Tyre?

 

[Iconoclast]

Try this!
https://www.tms.edu/m/msj23j.pdf

okay...good work...finally a link to consider

 

[Iconoclast]

PrmtvBptst1832,

The apostles indeed envisioned the kingdom being set up during the earthly ministry of Christ as is referenced several times. It is interesting, though, that Christ never corrected their understanding of the nature of the kingdom, but always their understanding of the timing of the kingdom.

They did...but they all had it wrong, The Apostles, the Jewish leaders
all looked for a primarily literal event and they were mistaken;

20 And having been asked by the Pharisees, When is the kingdom of God coming? he answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation;

21 nor shall they say, Lo here, or, Lo there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.

they were looking outward, physical literal....they were wrong!

The apostles received the encouragement of the triumphant Jesus after his resurrection. When asked concerning the restoring of the kingdom of God to Israel,

You are presupposing that a change has not happened, but it did when they rejected Jesus,MT21:43

Kyred keeps pointing to Jesus speaking of them!...not someone in the future, but them.

they were simply told, "...It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts 1:6)

Jesus had already instructed them of a future time, after Pentecost when they would begin to learn all that they did not grasp as the Spirit was poured out...
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

now watch here.....jn16
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

With the understanding you have of the kingdom, would you answer someone who asked you the same question in the same way???[/QUOTE]

Now this kind of question needs to be explored....sorry it took me awhile to get back to it, had to go from NY to Phoenix.. got there today, lol,,,

If someone asks this question and they do...I try to open up the issue before trying to solve it.
I point out these men had a wrong idea, as do modern dispensationalists, and I try and open up a discussion on the Kingdom....
'What is it?
When did it start?
How do you enter in?
How does it spread?
When does it end?

If the contents of the book sealed with seven seals has reference to the destruction of Jerusalem, how is it that the innumerable multitude coming out of the great tribulation (Revelation 7:14) are of "all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Revelation 7:9)?
While 70 ad came upon Jerusalem, I do not think ?Rev.7 has to be limited to just 70 ad personally.

Furthermore, we see in the sixth seal "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man" (Revelation 6:15). We also see, in fact, that they recognize "the great day of his wrath" (Revelation 6:17).

It was another Day of the Lord...

The Jews, except for the "remnant according to the election of grace" (Romans 11:5), did not recognize Christ during his earthly ministry or at their own demise as a nation. Neither do they to this day.

God is able to graft them in again...but it is not certain.we are told...
He is able to graft them in again...

 

[Iconoclast]

okay...good work...finally a link to consider

Yeshua1 said: ↑
Try this!
https://www.tms.edu/m/msj23j.pdf

In any treatment of this topic, we dare not treat the OT any differently than the NT treats it. NT writers took the OT seriously—and literally

lets see if he backs this up...

pg174;

Unless a reader consistently spiritualizes every reference to the kingdom, it is next to impossible to deny that it is eschatological, earthly, and messianic

Postmill, and Amill can agree in part with this statement, if we understand that the reign is Heavenly...and extends to the earth...

he says;

Part of the reason God’s kingdom has not yet come stems from fallen mankind’s consistent antagonism to God’s sovereign purpose for His own earthly kingdom.

It has already come....

figure 1 on pg 177 is useful.....

now watch here...this is key-

The Fall interrupted God’s creation blessing and mandate for mankind. Tragically, fulfillment of mankind’s promised potential cannot come to its fullest expression because of mankind’s fallen nature. Any exercise of that original dominion proves to be incomplete and imperfect. The psalmist refers to that high and lofty role in Ps 8:3–9:
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained; What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas. O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth!
Thus the psalmist presents the ideal for mankind, not the current reality—the designed future of kingdom rule, not the diminished past and present. Of course, Messiah, as the “Son of Man,” will fulfill mankind’s role as the human race’s only perfect representative. Listen to the writer of Hebrews:
For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. But one has testified somewhere, saying, “WHAT IS MAN, THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM? OR THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU ARE
180 | The Master’s Seminary Journal
CONCERNED ABOUT HIM? YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.” For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him. But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, “I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.” . . . Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, . . . (Heb 2:5–12, 14)
The writer states that “we do not yet see all things subjected to” Christ—His mediatorial kingdom has not commenced.

He goes to a key section of scripture, a central issue and I believe he comes to the wrong conclusion....

He says His mediatorial Kingdom has not commenced????

Of course it has commenced...it is not yet complete, but it has commenced,

heb2;8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
it is not complete, until the last day....but it has started, there is still much growth to happen by the preaching of the gospel.

The writer states that “we do not yet see all things subjected to” Christ—His mediatorial kingdom has not commenced. In the end, even the currently reigning prince of this world, Satan (John 12:31; Eph 2:2), will come under the Messiah’s reign and kingdom power. As long as Satan reigns as prince of this world, the kingdom of Christ has yet to be established. For that reason Jesus taught His disciples to pray, “Your kingdom come.”

No Jesus rules right now...
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet

 

[kyredneck]

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/david-chiltons-hermeneutics.104801/page-5#post-2318674

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/spiritual-interpretation-pt6.104738/page-4#post-2318271

other cities, even foreign ones, are referred to as "harlots."

Knowing your tendency to go overboard with great exaggeration, how many?

 

[Yeshua1]

It's stupidity if you think you're going to convince me that the judgement of the Great Harlot in Revelation is the judgement of Tyre. Like I said, a red herring. A very lame red herring.

Why would God jusge forever Israel in AD 70, when he also promised to have them restored in full at second coming of Jesus?

 

[Iconoclast]

Why would God jusge forever Israel in AD 70, when he also promised to have them restored in full at second coming of Jesus?

Do you think it is possible that God changed what we understand Israel to be?
Do you think the land in the middle east is still a Holy place, with no temple, no high priest, no animal sacrifice that means anything since the cross?
Why is it the Holy place, instead of a shadow that has passed and a new Holy Place is in view now?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you think it is possible that God changed what we understand Israel to be?
Do you think the land in the middle east is still a Holy place, with no temple, no high priest, no animal sacrifice that means anything since the cross?
Why is it the Holy place, instead of a shadow that has passed and a new Holy Place is in view now?

I think that God still has plans for the jewish people yet to be fulfilled!

 

[percho]

lets see if he backs this up...

pg174;


Postmill, and Amill can agree in part with this statement, if we understand that the reign is Heavenly...and extends to the earth...

he says;

It has already come....

figure 1 on pg 177 is useful.....

now watch here...this is key-



He goes to a key section of scripture, a central issue and I believe he comes to the wrong conclusion....

He says His mediatorial Kingdom has not commenced????

Of course it has commenced...it is not yet complete, but it has commenced,

heb2;8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
it is not complete, until the last day....but it has started, there is still much growth to happen by the preaching of the gospel.


No Jesus rules right now...
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; Heb 2:6.7 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; 1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Was the first man Adam created in a manner fit for the kingdom of God? Or? Was the first man Adam created as the figure of him to come, the Son of God manifested as man, in the likeness of sinful flesh yet without sin? The last Adam. The heir of God. Heb 1:1,2

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Heb 2:9

He was flesh and blood just like the first man Adam, a living soul and he, just like the first man Adam, died.

What about the kingdom of God?

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46 Verse 44 relative to the afterward - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Acts 13:34,35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Do we inherit and or enter the kingdom of God in some manner other that Christ. We who were born a little lower than the angels?

Is the Kingdom of God presently on the earth? Lord, teach us to pray.

Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruit;
Isa 66:8,9 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
1 Cor 15:23 afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[Covenanter]

Why would God jusge forever Israel in AD 70, when he also promised to have them restored in full at second coming of Jesus?

I think that God still has plans for the jewish people yet to be fulfilled!

You need to read what we write, & not reply with one-liners.

The AD 70 judgement was on this generation that persistently rejected their Messiah.

Mat. 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.​

God's judgement on this generation was complete. Jews & Israelites have always been free to repent & believe the Gospel of Jesus. The persecution of Jews down the ages by "Christians" is in no way justified by Scripture, nor is it the continuing judgement of God.

1 Thes. 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judæa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.​

The futurists want to change the meaning of this generation in Mat. 24:34 to "age" or "race" but that implies perpetual judgement against the Jews through the whole Gospel age. That is a very serious error & amounts to a denial of the Gospel to all families on earth.

Jeremiah warned the Jews against trusting in the temple:

Jer. 7:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.​

All the physical signs of the LORD's presence with his people Israel were to be ended.

Exo. 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Mat. 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.​

Israel's status as the elect nation was ended by their rejection of their Messiah:

Mat. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.​

So, what hope is there for the Jews, & which is the new & fruitful nation?

Many thousands of Jews listened to the Apostles, repented & believed Jesus & formed the church. The Jewish leaders persisted in their rejection of their Messiah, & with the condemnation of Stephen they were declared uncircumcised.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. ​

And who inhabits the new & fruitful holy nation?

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

Peter is declaring that the Jew/Gentile church s ONE people of God.

Jews & Israelis are in no way excluded from their promises, but are commanded to repent & claim the salvation the LORD Jesus Christ lived & died to secure.

All believing Jews/Israelis/descendants of Abraham/Gentiles inherit the glorious promises of Scripture. There is NO promise of restoration for those who continue to reject their Messiah.

In Romans 11 Paul wrote that all Israel will be saved conditional on repentance. No mention of the nation.

Rom. 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.​

Notice that the quoted promises in Rom. 11:26-27 are future because Isaiah wrote them as future to him. But

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​

clearly refers to Jesus & his saving work & the Gospel of the New Covenant. Prophecy focuses on Jesus & the Gospel, not the corrupt nation of Israel.

All Israel was & is the believing people of God, never all the physical descendants of Abraham.

Gal. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rev. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.​

 

[Yeshua1]

You need to read what we write, & not reply with one-liners.

The AD 70 judgement was on this generation that persistently rejected their Messiah.

Mat. 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.​

God's judgement on this generation was complete. Jews & Israelites have always been free to repent & believe the Gospel of Jesus. The persecution of Jews down the ages by "Christians" is in no way justified by Scripture, nor is the continuing judgement of God.

1 Thes. 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judæa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.​

The futurists want to change the meaning of this generation in Mat. 24:34 to "age" or "race" but that implies perpetual judgement against the Jews through the whole Gospel age. That is a very serious error & amounts to a denial of the Gospel to all families on earth.


Jeremiah warned the Jews against trusting in the temple:

Jer. 7:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.​

All the physical signs of the LORD's presence with his people Israel were to be ended.

Exo. 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Mat. 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.​

Israel's status as the elect nation was ended by their rejection of their Messiah:

Mat. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.​

So, what hope is there for the Jews, & which is the new & fruitful nation?

Many thousands of Jews listened to the Apostles, repented & believed Jesus & formed the church. The Jewish leaders persisted in their rejection of their Messiah, & with the condemnation of Stephen they were declared uncircumcised.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. ​

And who inhabits the new & fruitful holy nation?

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

Peter is declaring that the Jew/Gentile church s ONE people of God.

Jews & Israelis are in no way excluded from their promises, but are commanded to repent & claim the salvation the LORD Jesus Christ lived & died to secure.

All believing Jews/Israelis/descendants of Abraham/Gentiles inherit the glorious promises of Scripture. There is NO promise of restoration for those who continue to reject their Messiah.

In Romans 11 Paul wrote that all Israel will be saved conditional on repentance. No mention of the nation.

Rom. 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.​

Notice that the quoted promises in Rom. 11:26-27 are future because Isaiah wrote them as future to him. But

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​

clearly refers to Jesus & his saving work & the Gospel of the New Covenant. Prophecy focuses on Jesus & the Gospel, not the corrupt nation of Israel.

All Israel was & is the believing people of God, never all the physical descendants of Abraham.

Gal. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rev. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.​

You are not claiming here then that there are no future aspects of prophecy yet to be fulfilled? We still await his secondcoming, correct?

 

[Covenanter]

You are not claiming here then that there are no future aspects of prophecy yet to be fulfilled? We still await his secondcoming, correct?

You reply within 2 minutes of my post. That did not give you time to read it. You keep posting one-liners on the forum. If you want us to take you seriously - as I did giving you a very full reply to two posts, then read what we write & reply intelligently.

I believe Jesus will come again to raise the dead & bring about a new heaven & new earth. No future millennium - it is the present Gospel age, & no specifically prophesied future great tribulation - it's past, but present tribulation for believers as Jesus warned.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.​