Spurgeon disproves Calvinism

[InTheLight]

You have to understand that to most Calvinists around here, misspelling "Spurgeon", questioning his theology, mentioning that he never actually preached the sermons as published (he revised each sermon before print), or refusing to appreciate a good cigar is blasphemy.

Spurgeon was the forerunner of John Piper.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[37818]

Here I go, first post and jumping right into the deep end of the pool with the Calvinist guys.

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:
1. Lets change "dust" for pollen,or pollen floating in the sunlight
2. If God controls every speck of pollen, why is there SO MUCH pollen? We are taught in science that flowers produce millions of pollen TO INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT A POLLEN WILL MEET WITH THE FEMALE FLOWER.
3. If God is controlling every speck, why not just make each male flower produce ONE SPECK OF POLLEN and be done with it? Would that not glorify Him sufficiently,as the chance of mating success would be so small it must be God?
4. Conclusion: if there are so many pollen to maximize chance, then God is not controlling it.What is chance is not control. Spurgeon's example disproves itself.

I am not a Calvinist and your argument makes no sense. Or let me put this way, I do not understand your point.

The God I know is absolutely omniscient,

 

[JonC]

Spurgeon was the forerunner of John Piper.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

Yes. As a voice crying in the wilderness he made ready the way of modern Calvinism...
or so I'm told.

 

[David Kent]

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:

You believe? You have never posted any citations for you views other than som intyernet posts and we all know much of the internet is false.

I am content to believe the scripture.

• Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
• 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
• 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
• 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
• 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

That is perfectly clear to me. Jesus said:

• John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That teaching was no more popular then as it is now.

• John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
• 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[Ran the Man]

You believe? You have never posted any citations for you views other than som intyernet posts and we all know much of the internet is false.

I am content to believe the scripture.

• Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
• 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
• 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
• 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
• 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

That is perfectly clear to me. Jesus said:

• John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That teaching was no more popular then as it is now.

• John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
• 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

The chosen means the new chosen race or vessel thru which God would bless even Israel. And anybody can join. He chose from the foundations of the world to use one then switch to the other.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You have to understand that to most Calvinists around here, misspelling "Spurgeon", questioning his theology, mentioning that he never actually preached the sermons as published (he revised each sermon before print), or refusing to appreciate a good cigar is blasphemy.

You mean he actually wrote the sermons out for printing?
Why on earth didn't he record them and put them out on YouTube like everybody else?

 

[Ran the Man]

The Bible says that the stars, moon, sun [yes, a star], and even ocean waves are all ordained, set in their order, and know their place.

I think you drew an invalid conclusion. [Note: I am neither a C. nor an A. so this isn't a spiritual argument.]
The stars know thier place is a poetic way to say that. We know from science that stars are not stationary.

I think you drew an invalid conclusion. [Note: I am neither a C. nor an A. so this isn't a spiritual argument.]

You didn't define "chance". Do you mean chance as in giving all pollen grains an equal chance or chance as in giving that one singular pollen grain God intends the chance to enter the pistil?

The Bible says that the stars, moon, sun [yes, a star], and even ocean waves are all ordained, set in their order, and know their place. I believe that means that God is in control of those things.

And if God is sovereign over things that are incredibly macro in nature, why shouldn't he be in charge of the incredibly micro?

God created the way that all living things would reproduce, including flowers and humans. Knowing ahead of time that there would be many barriers to a male germ cell reaching a female germ cell in matter, which is created by God, but does not contain the supernatural abilities of God......it makes sense to me that God could ensure a way for the male germ cell of his choice to be free of those natural barriers by having other male germ cells "take the fall" so to speak.

That's one idea of chance - one way that God could be sovereign even over his smallest of matter.

Who's to say that this is not how it works? Even our own bodies - created by God - are subject to deterioration because of sin. And yet God ordains when our hearts stop beating and when they conquer disease.

If you are trying disprove a doctrine or spiritual teaching, giving your ideas about germ cells didn't do it. All you did was to disagree with someone. Again, I don't march behind the tenets of C. nor A. I'm just making an observation.

You didn't define "chance". Do you mean chance as in giving all pollen grains an equal chance or chance as in giving that one singular pollen grain God intends the chance to enter the pistil?

The Bible says that the stars, moon, sun [yes, a star], and even ocean waves are all ordained, set in their order, and know their place. I believe that means that God is in control of those things.

And if God is sovereign over things that are incredibly macro in nature, why shouldn't he be in charge of the incredibly micro?

God created the way that all living things would reproduce, including flowers and humans. Knowing ahead of time that there would be many barriers to a male germ cell reaching a female germ cell in matter, which is created by God, but does not contain the supernatural abilities of God......it makes sense to me that God could ensure a way for the male germ cell of his choice to be free of those natural barriers by having other male germ cells "take the fall" so to speak.

That's one idea of chance - one way that God could be sovereign even over his smallest of matter.

Who's to say that this is not how it works? Even our own bodies - created by God - are subject to deterioration because of sin. And yet God ordains when our hearts stop beating and when they conquer disease.

If you are trying disprove a doctrine or spiritual teaching, giving your ideas about germ cells didn't do it. All you did was to disagree with someone. Again, I don't march behind the tenets of C. nor A. I'm just making an observation.

Do stars "KNOW" thier place? You take poetic language to be scientific fact? I really didn't know the Mr.Sun Sun Mr Golden Sun knew his place in the sky.

 

[JonC]

You mean he actually wrote the sermons out for printing?
Why on earth didn't he record them and put them out on YouTube like everybody else?

I doubt Spurgeon could even work a VCR.

No. I mean he rewrote the sermons for printing.

 

[David Kent]

There were sermons published in the 1800'' entitled The Penny Pulpit, whether any of the sermoms were from Spurgeon, I don't know.

There was a Baptist church near here in the 1840's who did not have a pastor and when they didn't have visiting preachers, they read sermons from other pastors.

 

[David Kent]

The chosen means the new chosen race or vessel thru which God would bless even Israel. And anybody can join. He chose from the foundations of the world to use one then switch to the other.

I don't see any mention of Israel.

 

[tyndale1946]

There were sermons published in the 1800'' entitled The Penny Pulpit, whether any of the sermoms were from Spurgeon, I don't know.

There was a Baptist church near here in the 1840's who did not have a pastor and when they didn't have visiting preachers, they read sermons from other pastors.

I have your answer David, he did and here is the link... Glad to help... Brother Glen

The Launching of the Weekly Sermons in 1855

 

[David Kent]

I have your answer David, he did and here is the link... Glad to help... Brother Glen

The Launching of the Weekly Sermons in 1855

Thank you Brother Glen,#
I did read about those writings in s book entitled "Gathered Fragments" regarding the life of a Mr Wakeley, a local Farmer. (The book was written by one of his brothers, one of the Brothers was named Stanley but whether he was the subject of the book I can't remember) Mr Wakeley decided to invite his workers to a prayer meeting in his granary, not expecting any to attend. In fact most of his workers did attend. He once said that he visited a hairdresser in Rochester, Kent, and during discussion was given a copy of the penny pulpit.

Eventually Mr Wakeley built a chapel and was the pastor. This was a Strict and Particular Baptist chapel.

His granary was in a small village/hamlet called Otterham.

 

[Ran the Man]

I don't see any mention of Israel.

He says he's talking about Israel.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Do stars "KNOW" thier place? You take poetic language to be scientific fact? I really didn't know the Mr.Sun Sun Mr Golden Sun knew his place in the sky.

Is the sun not fixed in our own galaxy? "Fixed" as having a pattern of revolving around the center of the Milky Way just as we have a pattern of revolving around the sun?

So, yes, the sun does "know" its place in the sky. Poetic license for God creating and maintaining the order of the universe.

 

[Ran the Man]

then ordained is too.

 

[prophecy70]

At the least you can use his full name!... Charles Haddon Sturgeon... I mean Spurgeon!!!... Brother Glen

Thats Charles Haddock Sturgeon to you