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Standards for dating?
- Thread starter chickenlady
- Start date
No she didn't. The "appropriate person" would have been me. </font>[/QUOTE]You are so correct, JohnV. If she had just walked over, you could have introduced your sister-in-law to this woman and then there would have been no concern.
Dina, you are correct about the definition of the scripture concerning "appearance of evil", it is my understand that it does mean abstaining from forms of evil.
Sad...I am single, and I would never get to talk to the Pastor or any of the other men if they held to what you espouse. Don't you trust yourself??? are you THAT weak in the flesh? For
Goodness sake, if you cannot be trusted around a Christian woman, how about non-Christian women, how do you talk to them at work, etc?
I love my Christian brothers. I see nothing wrong with one-on-one, as in practicing music or working on projects.
I agree, very sad.
Plus, its focusing on the symptoms rather than the problem.
You can take the man out of the tempting situation, but you can't stop him from having a problem with his thought life without stopping his brain function, not ususally an acceptable method of progressive sanctification, although it gets the job done for sure.
IMO, many of those who impose these types of ridiculous guidelines on themselves and others are suffering from a complete refusal to address their sin. they have a problem with their thought life, and they have decided that avoidance and building fences will keep them from sin, perhaps not seeing what they already deal with as sin. Either that or they are totally misguided by someone else who had a thought life problem.
The question I would ask, if that person is genuinely a christian, is if God would allow them to continue to live in that sin, or would he allow their guidelines to fail in order to get them to address the real problem. I have seen it, that's why I'm asking. When we make guidelines that supposedly help us avoid dealing with the real heart issues, we make it about us, not about God, its about how many walls I can put up to keep me from sin rather than how can I become more like Christ. Christ didn't avoid sinful environments, he remained sinless while in them. I'm not saying you have to intentionally put yourself in compromising situations, but a little balance would be appropriate here.
Plus, its focusing on the symptoms rather than the problem.
You can take the man out of the tempting situation, but you can't stop him from having a problem with his thought life without stopping his brain function, not ususally an acceptable method of progressive sanctification, although it gets the job done for sure.
IMO, many of those who impose these types of ridiculous guidelines on themselves and others are suffering from a complete refusal to address their sin. they have a problem with their thought life, and they have decided that avoidance and building fences will keep them from sin, perhaps not seeing what they already deal with as sin. Either that or they are totally misguided by someone else who had a thought life problem.
The question I would ask, if that person is genuinely a christian, is if God would allow them to continue to live in that sin, or would he allow their guidelines to fail in order to get them to address the real problem. I have seen it, that's why I'm asking. When we make guidelines that supposedly help us avoid dealing with the real heart issues, we make it about us, not about God, its about how many walls I can put up to keep me from sin rather than how can I become more like Christ. Christ didn't avoid sinful environments, he remained sinless while in them. I'm not saying you have to intentionally put yourself in compromising situations, but a little balance would be appropriate here.
buckster75
Member
actually it means every thing that seems to be evil. you have to make a judegment the word is "εἶδος" "eidos" means: a view, form,appearance, fashion, shape, sight.
buckster75
Member
"I know of Christian men who will not allow themselves to be alone with another female except for their wife. I will not allow myself to be alone with another woman"
some of you call this "sad" Bible calls it staying above reproach.
some of you call this "sad" Bible calls it staying above reproach.
Buckster, you almost got "eidos" right. "Eidos" means "the nature of something", especially in regards to figure, shape, or form. It does not simply mean "something that looks like".
The verse in its Greek literally means to refrain from everything that has the nature, shape, or form of evil. It does not simply mean to refrain from everything that looks like it it might be evil.
When I was dining with my sister, there was no "eidos" of evil whatsoever.
In regards to the preacher refraining from ever being alone with a woman, I agree with you, that is certainly remaining above reproach, and he's making a concerted effort at it. However, it would not be an "eidos" of evil if he had lunch with the church secretary and it was above board.
The verse in its Greek literally means to refrain from everything that has the nature, shape, or form of evil. It does not simply mean to refrain from everything that looks like it it might be evil.
When I was dining with my sister, there was no "eidos" of evil whatsoever.
In regards to the preacher refraining from ever being alone with a woman, I agree with you, that is certainly remaining above reproach, and he's making a concerted effort at it. However, it would not be an "eidos" of evil if he had lunch with the church secretary and it was above board.
buckster75
Member
that is why I said you have to make a judgement
dcorbett and superdave,
its not sad at all! These pastors just realize that while they may be able to handle it, it leaves them open to many MANY problems.....including being lied about by the woman they were alone with. Yes, thats paranoid, but do you know what kind of people are out there that the pastors have to deal with? I wouldn't say most of them would accuse the pastor of being inappropriate, but I know there are some. And when the pastor puts it upon himself to not be alone with her, he protects both himself AND her.
And I believe that when they say "alone with a woman" they mean alone in a closed room.
You can have a private discussion with someone in a room with the door open, so that anyone walking by can see in.
Its not, IMO, an indication that the pastor is unwilling to deal with actual sin in his life. Isn't that a bit of a drastic leap?
its not sad at all! These pastors just realize that while they may be able to handle it, it leaves them open to many MANY problems.....including being lied about by the woman they were alone with. Yes, thats paranoid, but do you know what kind of people are out there that the pastors have to deal with? I wouldn't say most of them would accuse the pastor of being inappropriate, but I know there are some. And when the pastor puts it upon himself to not be alone with her, he protects both himself AND her.
And I believe that when they say "alone with a woman" they mean alone in a closed room.
You can have a private discussion with someone in a room with the door open, so that anyone walking by can see in.
Its not, IMO, an indication that the pastor is unwilling to deal with actual sin in his life. Isn't that a bit of a drastic leap?
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
I can't believe I forgot I had written on this one just checking it right now.
Yes Bapmom I agree if a neighbor noticed 2 single people, going in a house and staying real late, yep that was consitute the possibility that something may be going on.
Yes Bapmom I agree if a neighbor noticed 2 single people, going in a house and staying real late, yep that was consitute the possibility that something may be going on.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
John wrote ....I think it's safe to imply that the "appearance of evil" verse applies to the being the appearance of evil to the reasonable person. A person with an unreasonable mindset will see sin in the most benign situations.
that was pretty much what I was saying, those who have aproblem with gossip will find ways to do it even if everything is fine.
that was pretty much what I was saying, those who have aproblem with gossip will find ways to do it even if everything is fine.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Thankful wrote ......In my opinion, there is no way that a person can live his/her life so that no one will gossip.
Aint that the truth !
Aint that the truth !
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Be back later my shows on
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
John wrote......No she didn't. The "appropriate person" would have been me.
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RIGHT ON
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RIGHT ON
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Bapmom wrote.......its not sad at all! These pastors just realize that while they may be able to handle it, it leaves them open to many MANY problems.....including being lied about by the woman they were alone with. Yes, thats paranoid, but do you know what kind of people are out there that the pastors have to deal with? I wouldn't say most of them would accuse the pastor of being inappropriate, but I know there are some. And when the pastor puts it upon himself to not be alone with her, he protects both himself AND her.
And I believe that when they say "alone with a woman" they mean alone in a closed room.
I agree ! its better to be safe than sorry
And I believe that when they say "alone with a woman" they mean alone in a closed room.
I agree ! its better to be safe than sorry
buckster75
Member
well said RightFromWrong and Bapmom
Actually the situation we were referring to as sad was a person who would not have a female secretary in the building who wasn't his wife, it wasn't just about sitting in a closed room with a woman. That may well be an appropriate precaution.
Its unfortunate that some of you think that my responsibility in dealing with a gossip would be to change my behavior. As a pastor it would be more appropriate to deal with the sin of Gossip, rather than walk on eggshells to avoid it. Gossips will Gossip if you go to lunch with your sister, it does not matter how careful you are, they will find something to use to discredit you, that is the selfish nature of the sin of Gossip, it is designed to make the one gossiping feel better about themselves by tearing down others, it has nothing to do with the actual behavior they are witnessing.
Be careful by all means, but to say its a sin to have a female secretary, or that its even unwise to work with a memeber of the opposite sex in ministry in an upright and appropriate manner just because someone might think something bad is unwise, unbibilical, and probably sin.
Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Make sure your behavior is appropriate and than deal with those who would gossip about you by addressing THEIR sin.
Its unfortunate that some of you think that my responsibility in dealing with a gossip would be to change my behavior. As a pastor it would be more appropriate to deal with the sin of Gossip, rather than walk on eggshells to avoid it. Gossips will Gossip if you go to lunch with your sister, it does not matter how careful you are, they will find something to use to discredit you, that is the selfish nature of the sin of Gossip, it is designed to make the one gossiping feel better about themselves by tearing down others, it has nothing to do with the actual behavior they are witnessing.
Be careful by all means, but to say its a sin to have a female secretary, or that its even unwise to work with a memeber of the opposite sex in ministry in an upright and appropriate manner just because someone might think something bad is unwise, unbibilical, and probably sin.
Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Make sure your behavior is appropriate and than deal with those who would gossip about you by addressing THEIR sin.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
I agree superdave.
Our first Pastor in the conservative church had his wife as the secretary on the other side of his office. They also had other secretaries. And he made sure any time he counseled a female alone that his would be there. I was a single mother so he had to do this on several ocassions.
The church we are in now the Pastor is in his 40's and is I have to admit attractive and his secretary is in her 70's or even 80's. Don't think there will be any problems. He will never Pastor a woman alone unless she was there.
You can't stop a gossip so it is best to be careful for sure. Thank God that isn't one of my problems.
JOKE: I saw this on a T-Shirt
It is wrong to repeat gossip, so get it right the first time.
Our first Pastor in the conservative church had his wife as the secretary on the other side of his office. They also had other secretaries. And he made sure any time he counseled a female alone that his would be there. I was a single mother so he had to do this on several ocassions.
The church we are in now the Pastor is in his 40's and is I have to admit attractive and his secretary is in her 70's or even 80's. Don't think there will be any problems. He will never Pastor a woman alone unless she was there.
You can't stop a gossip so it is best to be careful for sure. Thank God that isn't one of my problems.
JOKE: I saw this on a T-Shirt
It is wrong to repeat gossip, so get it right the first time.
superdave,
I did not mean to imply that it was wrong to have a female secretary. I don't think I said that, and I don't remember seeing it written by anyone else. Maybe I missed it.
Its just not practical to "require" the pastor to only have his wife be the secretary, of course. I hoped I was specific enough by saying we were talking about two unmarried folks being alone in a closed room together.
I know I did not deal with the issue of the gossiper because in this thread we are talking about the avoidance of the appearance of evil. Of course, as the pastor, you'd have the liberty and responsibility to deal with the gossiper as well. I know I usually don't get that chance.
But you know, so often when we are gossipped about we have no idea WHO actually did the gossipping, so how can we deal with that person? We can only look at our own actions and decide if they were appropriate or not.
I did not mean to imply that it was wrong to have a female secretary. I don't think I said that, and I don't remember seeing it written by anyone else. Maybe I missed it.
Its just not practical to "require" the pastor to only have his wife be the secretary, of course. I hoped I was specific enough by saying we were talking about two unmarried folks being alone in a closed room together.
I know I did not deal with the issue of the gossiper because in this thread we are talking about the avoidance of the appearance of evil. Of course, as the pastor, you'd have the liberty and responsibility to deal with the gossiper as well. I know I usually don't get that chance.
But you know, so often when we are gossipped about we have no idea WHO actually did the gossipping, so how can we deal with that person? We can only look at our own actions and decide if they were appropriate or not.